The route is Persistence, not Persistent.

I think you need to double check your guidebook.

lmao

Not that I can lead this quite yet, but does anyone ever climb the full length crack, as opposed to leaning in from the block? That adds 20 feet or so of steep 5.9ish climbing below the crux sequence. I've never seen anyone lead it this way.

Yes, I think the way it is done from the pit is to climb up to the crux, hang on gear, wish you had started from the block, then continue. I find the move off the block so difficult for the grade.


From SuperTopo's "Shawangunks - Cornerstone of Eastern Traditional Climbing" Thread: Thread Here

Steve Grossman:

Welcome back from Ken's wonderful service gathering, Jstan. I hope that finding this thread was a pleasant surprise. Any tales from battling with this one?



John Stannard:
Steve:
Oh, yes there were many facets to that one. It was my first attempt at a half-way decent first ascent. On my honeymoon in 1969 I had my new wife getting flipped around catching me on it. This may even have contributed to later unfortunate developments. I already knew pitons had to go but the peck crackers I put in the overhung rock kept sliding to the front and out. Feeling as I did, I was wrong to use pitons and leaving fixed pins in place did not right the wrong. What can I say? Once I knew pitons had to go, the fact others were using pins actively in no way excused me.

When a person has just started climbing they go at it in a particular frame of mind. Later, for one reason or another, that mindset changes. Having never really learned how to do cracks( the Gunks don't have very many) this climb took too long to figure out. I did not learn fast enough to suit me. I wanted to do roped climbing not roped bouldering. On the successful try when I got to the wide knee jam I stopped, knowing I had arrived at an end. I knew I was through and wanted to enjoy the moment of completion. It had been a fun four years. Let's face it. At 30 I was already no spring chicken.

When I got down I wondered, "What now?" I thought, "Maybe I can do something helpful?" I did climb afterward. But everything was done for a reason. Without doubt I had less talent for being helpful than I had for climbing. But I thought I might be able to make up for it by being persistent.

You will have to ask others about ratings. As long as a climb is fun and if to do it I have to be better this weekend than I was last weekend, I know everything I need to know.

Another classic LC route: Resistent

I don't know about "Persistent" vs. "Persistance" (I thought Stannard had originally used the latter name), but since I made the first ascent of Resistance, I presumably have some credibility when it comes to asserting the correct nomenclature.

Yes, I agree and although I am not making an argument for publishing route info for Lost City I hope that we don't see this information fade into obsolescent.

Now THERE's a route name.

That would be on the Aging Wall, next to Adolescence and Prepubescence, right?

The other name that represents the escence of a referescence to a first escent would of course be Convalescence.

So what, are we saying that Persistence still awaits a full length direct start ascent? I seriously doubt that.

I don't know how Stannard did it, but it has definitely been led from the pit w/o a hang, Mark Hudon on-sighted it in the 70's and I think even Clairvoyance has been on-sighted.

The crucial question is why people are persistent in calling it Persistence. I chose to call it Persitent in the video because Yankee Rock and Ice, Dick Dumais' Shawanagunk Rock Climbing, and JStan himself refer to it as Persistent (read the earlier JStan quote). As RG states, you would think the First Ascensionist would be given credibility. I just hope everyone enjoyed the video, and thanks Crimpy for posting it!

What a wall!

Consistence
Insistence
Incontinence

While the route was identified as "Persistent" in DuMais' book, there's another thread on the Taco entitled "Persistence" in which John responds and does not correct the name to persistent. There has probably been a lot of confusion over the years, with combinations of mishearing, John saying he was persistent and the climb represented persistence, etc. I recall John and others (Kevin, Russ, et al) referring to it as Persistence. At one point I had even asked John what he was going to call the route.

We can ask him directly - he posts from time to time on ST.

Starting in the pit and leading up makes it a grade harder - 12a. It's been done many times.

Does it matter?

~A good memory is one trained to forget the trivial.
Cliff Fadiman

My first 5.9 lead was Ance Line.

Uh oh, I think our legs are being pulled by deliberate misspelling of names.

Archiving the stories was my real goal in creating a section for LC on Mountain Project. I still think it's really too bad that the gag reflex took over.

Great video!

Hey Julie, I have mixed feelings on this one, and not that I am looking to turn this into a Lost City debate, but I would like to see the LC information recorded for historical purposes before it's too distorted, but I also love the lack of documentation for the exploratory feel of the place.

Glad you liked the video!

Yes, very nice video. While debating the name perhaps we can also dispute the grade, wasn't it originally given 10+?

How secure did you feel up in the holey tree?

We should shift the discussion to climbs that are in the guidebook. For example, we can talk about RG's first free ascent of Coexistent.

Archive all the stories you want. For the last time, the Preserve doesn't want to see a Lost City guidebook.

How cute! He apparently has the hubris to think that hadn't been done prior to 2009.

I was thinking the same thing. Isn't that the traverse that's in the guidebook as a Lynn Hill problem?

Sense of humor much? LOL

GO

I'd like to thank Seth & Retro for doing such a good job policing the board today

I didn't realize the dude was kidding, my bad.

i didn't know that 5.9 climbing before the crux makes the climb harder

True only when the crux is less than 5.9.

I don't know if it 5.9 or not. I didn't remember having extreme difficulty figuring out the moves up out of the pit, but i do distinctly recall being very pumped already and having to start the crux sequence with that pump.

Nor did I.

Drew's humor isn't always so...shall we say.....obvious

I get it now, it's actually pretty funny. Especially with the music, which I had turned off earlier in my office. With the volume down I missed all the nuances. I have to try that, it looks pretty fun. I've only walked by it ten billion times.

Andrew's traverse problem combines the Pebbles High Traverse V3, the span of the gap which i believe is all his to the Goldstone Traverse V4, finally finishing off with the Lynn Hill traverse V8.
I thought by adding the second video someome would get it.

Great video, Cfrac! Couldn't help but notice a very well executed Euro blow at 2:05.

It took some digging, but I'm now holding my copy of Volume 1, Number 1, July 1975's North American Climber. A short lived mag put out by Paul Baird. The cover photo by Baird is a double shot of Rich Romano opposite Spaff Ackerly. The photos are set up to offer a mirror image. This was Spaff's successfull fourth of ascent of....... Persistent on his third try of the day as per the photo credit.
I'll post a copy as soon as can find a scanner, or maybe someone else also has a copy.

Yes, the climb was originally rated at 5.10+ as were many test pieces of that era.

I think that photo was in the supertopo Gunks thread ....

Here it is:

Wowee; that brings back memories.

I wish I still had my copy! Feng Shui is a stupid concept.

Its a good video, but I'd always like if people would show more of the work that went into a route like Clairvoyence. Most people don't on-sight them, and I find it far more interesting the process as opposed to the final result.

Sort of like when my climbing partner Jeff got his first trad route, Red Planet. By the time he got it, we knew it was going to go down (especially since he had whipped from final jug hold at the very end of the .13 section about 4 or 5 times and the only thing he had left to do was the 5.11 section). In my mind, that is far more interesting.