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#61448 - 11/16/11 02:49 PM modern times Beta
worthrussell Offline
journeyman

Registered: 04/11/10
Posts: 90
Loc: NY, Brooklyn
Ok so I climbed Modern Times last weekend and I had a super tough time. I knew nothing about the climb except that it was a supposed sandbag. I looked at the roof and assumed there would be a good rest between the first and second roof at the base of the pine tree. I was wrong and went into a semi panic move and wrapped my arms around the tree in a death grip and stuffed my legs in the horizontal. My sense of dignity and pride did not return until i had the tree slinged. Since my attempted lead I have looked at pictures and seen people pulling the roof via heel hook and also getting higher and pulling what looks like a no foot good hand traverse. My Question is what is the best way to send this crux. Im going back to modern times this friday to reclaim my manhood but a little Beta can go a long way. Any tips to help me reclaim my cajones would be much appreciated.

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#61450 - 11/16/11 03:04 PM Re: modern times Beta [Re: worthrussell]
retroscree Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 397
http://cliffmama.com/climbing/2002/092002-Gunks/092002-Gunks.html
Navigate to the third set of photos in the left hand frame - gives move by move beta. You'll see that the climber in that sequence doesn't go anywhere near the tree.

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#61452 - 11/16/11 03:52 PM Re: modern times Beta [Re: worthrussell]
fear Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/27/03
Posts: 221
Loc: New England
Hehe...

I too found myself bound and whimpering to that tree many years ago, as have many before us.

The funny thing is, once I was starting to lead 10's I went back and it didn't seem quite so bad. Maybe solid 5.9.

There is no heel hook required although I suppose you could for the final move.

I'm 6'3" and cannot get a rest anywhere. I've seen people throw a left knee-bar in there midway before moving right but I couldn't make that work although I saw a place where someone with a much shorter leg could probably do it.

So I don't think there is any trick. Just have your gear ready to place, hang on straight arms, and KEEP MOVING!

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#61453 - 11/16/11 04:10 PM Re: modern times Beta [Re: retroscree]
jakedatc Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/18/06
Posts: 241
This is when trad only climbers could use a bit of sport in their life. MT is not a sandbag, most trad climbers are just not used to getting that steep. body position for rests on steep routes is key. Can get a good shake out here. I find the move up onto the sloper ledge after is harder than the actual roof.


Here's Rumney 5.9 bottom section is as short and steep as the MT roof.


looks a lot like this. minus the bomber knee bar you get on MT

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#61454 - 11/16/11 04:23 PM Re: modern times Beta [Re: jakedatc]
worthrussell Offline
journeyman

Registered: 04/11/10
Posts: 90
Loc: NY, Brooklyn
Ah ha. That slide sequence was wonderful. I went straight for the tree. I guess that was my mistake. Traverse lower and move right before pulling all the way up. Good stuff. Thanks. Cant wait for an epic send this friday

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#61457 - 11/16/11 05:56 PM Re: modern times Beta [Re: worthrussell]
Daniel Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/23/01
Posts: 1515
Originally Posted By: worthrussell
I went straight for the tree. I guess that was my mistake.


Yup, a mistake made by many. The tree is tempting, but once you're on the tree it's very hard to get off the tree (or so I've been told).

I've never heel hooked on the route, but I took a much shorter second who said he heel hooked three times. I've heard about the knee bar--even had a second who used it--but I've never found it, maybe because I've been too concerned about powering through the crux before I pump out to look for it. Also, I'm tall.

<warning: gear beta>

I get the obvious gear at the good stance before the first overhang. I get gear again in the vertical crack below the last overhang, just before the last traverse right. I'd highly recommend taking the time there to place something; a fall at the end of the traverse, entirely possible if one is pumped out, would be a very big pendulum if the last pieces are under the first roof.

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#61459 - 11/16/11 06:42 PM Re: modern times Beta [Re: Daniel]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3764
Loc: Ulster County, NY
Good times! That tree suckers in a lot of people. I always tell people trying the lead for the first time to stay away from the tree, only to see them making love to it shamelessly a half hour later...Ha!! I move make one big move up off the stance, then start traversing up and right. the feet are not as bad as you may think. Positive smears and excellent jugs. The key for me is having the piece I need for the exit move ready to go before I commit to the sequence. being able to fire that badboy in the vertical crack below the topout fast makes topping out a dream, as opposed to a nightmare.

RR

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#61463 - 11/17/11 01:10 AM Re: modern times Beta [Re: RangerRob]
eparker_s Offline
journeyman

Registered: 03/16/11
Posts: 50
Yep, stay away from the tree. Its a nightmare for the second also. Instead find the rest pictured in the first photo. I used it differently, kinda tucked up inside, pretty much hands free. I would have been toast had I not found that rest. You can plug that crucial piece from there before committing to the last bit. I didn't need a heal either but I'm tall

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#61464 - 11/17/11 03:53 PM Re: modern times Beta [Re: eparker_s]
chip Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 2675
Loc: Sittin' Pretty in Fat City
I must be some kinda bad-ass 'cause I went to the tree and just kept going! Er, bad-ass idiot is prolly more appropriate.

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#61465 - 11/17/11 04:07 PM Re: modern times Beta [Re: chip]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3764
Loc: Ulster County, NY
For what it is worth, the variation listed as "Exit Stage Left", is well worth doing, and no gimme at 9+. About 6 or 7 feet before committing to the initial overhang on Modern Times, look for a roof crack that gains a hanging alcove, then a crab crawl left to the topout. If you haven't done it, you should.

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#61466 - 11/17/11 06:45 PM Re: modern times Beta [Re: RangerRob]
Mike Rawdon Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/29/99
Posts: 4275
Loc: Poughkeepsie
Anyone aiming for MT say, next year, might want to do the last pitch of Billy Shears*. Similar climbing but less exposed and at least a grade easier (it's not as steep).

*(If you have the grey Trapps guide, this pitch is now described as the 3rd pitch of Calisthenic.)

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#61467 - 11/17/11 07:00 PM Re: modern times Beta [Re: Mike Rawdon]
chip Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 2675
Loc: Sittin' Pretty in Fat City
A very good recommendation, Mike.

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#61468 - 11/17/11 08:53 PM Re: modern times Beta [Re: Mike Rawdon]
oenophore Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 5962
Loc: 212 land
Originally Posted By: Mike Rawdon
Anyone aiming for MT say, next year, might want to do the last pitch of Billy Shears*. Similar climbing but less exposed and at least a grade easier (it's not as steep).

*(If you have the grey Trapps guide, this pitch is now described as the 3rd pitch of Calisthenic.)
Another one like that is BM.
_________________________

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#61469 - 11/17/11 09:15 PM Re: modern times Beta [Re: oenophore]
talus Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 1259
i once saw a girl go up to the tree and freak out. somehow she was able to get into the crack next to the tree and lie down.
_________________________
John Okner Photography

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#61470 - 11/18/11 12:53 AM Re: modern times Beta [Re: oenophore]
Smike Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/01/01
Posts: 3143
Loc: in your backyard
Originally Posted By: oenophore
Another one like that is BM.


If that is the BM I'm thinking of over in the Nears, I'd steer clear, climbers on that climb a year ago almost killed themselves, and 4 of my friends and myself doing a climb right next to it, when several tons of rock + trees came raining down. How the leader lived, I still do not know till this day.

Annnnway.... Love that tree, only required gear to bring is a rack of bananas to munch on when your hanging like an orangutan.

Last bit of beta (don't read it if you don't want it) is do not pull the second roof early, 'dance' right until you can just pop on up. Pulling it early makes it 10ish...

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#61471 - 11/18/11 04:09 AM Re: modern times Beta [Re: Smike]
Jannette Offline

Cliffmama
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 10/03/00
Posts: 2224
Loc: Gardiner, NY
Originally Posted By: Smike

Last bit of beta (don't read it if you don't want it) is do not pull the second roof early, 'dance' right until you can just pop on up. Pulling it early makes it 10ish...


Yeah, I mentioned that in my cliffmama photo album as well. Go about 3 feet right, then there's a little foothold to make it easier to mantle up. When I led it, I was so pumped I couldn't stop to place gear during the traverse. I knew the moves and my second had led MT before so I knew he should be OK as well, so I just kept going so I wouldn't run out of steam until I could get a good stance. I don't usually like to run anything out, but I just don't have the endurance to get that piece in and still have gas left to do the last mantle. I haven't had the nerve to lead it again in years...
p.s. good to see someone found my photos and notes on cliffmama.com - I haven't looked at them in years... no time to keep the site updated.

Jannette

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#61473 - 11/19/11 03:40 AM Re: modern times Beta [Re: Jannette]
tls Offline
journeyman

Registered: 07/24/00
Posts: 54
If you google around, you can find the Vulgarian Digest issue where MT is described as a new route.

It says to go straight up at the tree...! So if that's actually the original line, then yeah, it's quite a sandbag at 5.8, given that everyone seems to think that line is somewhere on the hard side of 9, maybe 5.10.

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#61474 - 11/19/11 03:59 AM Re: modern times Beta [Re: tls]
tls Offline
journeyman

Registered: 07/24/00
Posts: 54
Hm, so, rereading it, it's not that clear. The climb is described in 5 pitches(!):

"This may be the biggest bunch of ceilings you ever get through, Mr. Jones. The route goes through the apex of the two overhanging corners to the left of the High Exposure nose. Start: A corner 40 feet left of High Exposure.

1. 80 ft. Climb open book and continue up face to overhand. Traverse left 10 ft. to small ledge.

2. 80 ft. Step right and climb over bulge, then traverse left 10 ft. and continue up face to overhang. Surmount overhang to large ledge (Grand Traverse Lednge).

3. 40 ft. Walk left 20 ft. and climb small corner facing right, then traverse right to very large flake. Climb to top of flake and belay.

4. 40 ft. Climb to notch in overhang and surmount. Traverse right, scared shitless, to large pine.

5. 30 ft. Climb from pine tree to top."

Now, I would not describe the tree in the middle of the business on MT as "large". So I suppose it was then so small as to not even rate mention, and one was simply to "traverse right, scared shitless" past where the obvious tree is now -- which is legitimately 5.8, not the absurd 10c that new comic book guidebook calls it (while I'm on the topic of that particular guidebook, does anyone here really think the first pitch of Pink Laurel is harder than P38?)






Edited by tls (11/19/11 03:59 AM)

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#61475 - 11/19/11 05:13 AM Re: modern times Beta [Re: tls]
rg@ofmc Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/25/99
Posts: 2467
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
Gotta love it when someone argues that MT is not sandbagged at 5.8 by comparing it to a 5.9 route somewhere else...

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#61476 - 11/19/11 05:24 AM Re: modern times Beta [Re: rg@ofmc]
Mark Heyman Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1123
Loc: South Jersey (Pinelands)
reading that cracks me up

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#61477 - 11/19/11 12:59 PM Re: modern times Beta [Re: tls]
Rickster Offline
old hand

Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 845
Loc: Orange Cty, NY
Originally Posted By: tls


4. 40 ft. Climb to notch in overhang and surmount. Traverse right, scared shitless, to large pine.

5. 30 ft. Climb from pine tree to top."

Now, I would not describe the tree in the middle of the business on MT as "large". So I suppose it was then so small as to not even rate mention, and one was simply to "traverse right, scared shitless" past where the obvious tree is now)

Through the final hangs and traverses, two trees are mentioned in Blue Dick. In Gray Dick's MT description only the larger tree (post crux) way off to the right is described and also visible in the guide photos. The smaller tree in question is mentioned only in regards to the start of the Exit Stage Left variation. Dick has wisely left that tree out of the description for the regular MT.

I suppose if people intially "hand" traverse too far right they run into Variation 2 at 10a and not the listed 5.8+?

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#61479 - 11/19/11 01:37 PM Re: modern times Beta [Re: rg@ofmc]
jakedatc Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/18/06
Posts: 241
Originally Posted By: rg@ofmc
Gotta love it when someone argues that MT is not sandbagged at 5.8 by comparing it to a 5.9 route somewhere else...


many traddies from NY and N conway puff up and say Rumney is softly graded.. so.. there you go.


Edited by jakedatc (11/19/11 01:38 PM)

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#61482 - 11/20/11 10:36 PM Re: modern times Beta [Re: Mark Heyman]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3764
Loc: Ulster County, NY
I wonder if there used to be a white pine on the topout ledge. If you read that description it would not lead one to the pine growing out of the alcove. Any oldtimers out there care to chime in? RG?

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#61499 - 11/21/11 06:45 PM Re: modern times Beta [Re: RangerRob]
Rickster Offline
old hand

Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 845
Loc: Orange Cty, NY
RR, As mentioned above, both the description, and photos show a large pine way off to the right from the "alcove" alcove tree. I don't have a clue if it is still there.

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#61509 - 11/21/11 08:37 PM Re: modern times Beta [Re: Rickster]
rg@ofmc Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/25/99
Posts: 2467
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
There used to be a pine tree out right---it is most visible in the route photo in Red Dick.

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