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#41593 - 11/13/08 05:01 PM Re: Rosendale Cave CLOSED TO CLIMBING [Re: chip]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
Currently much too late, but Julie makes a great suggestion. Unfortunately, the climbers looking to cut their teeth on this type of climb are often the ones least capable of approaching a landowner in a respectful way and negotiating an understanding of access. I don't have any knowledge of who was involved and am making no specific charges of social ineptitude. This is why people like Jim McCarthy were so valuable to our interest in that the older, more seasoned, climber will also have some additional life and probable professional experience to draw from and help prevent and resolve these issues.

The GCC was brought into being to facilitate good relationships with landowners and permission to climb. Unfortunately the wrong people are in charge there.

#41600 - 11/13/08 05:53 PM Re: Rosendale Cave CLOSED TO CLIMBING [Re: RockHarder]
Eddie Offline

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1446
Loc: NP. NY
 Originally Posted By: RockHarder
Threatening climbers on this site,[which makes up less than 1% of the climbing community] with ending climbing elsewhere for those who have been climbing in Rosendale without any problems is obscene. Too bad that you already talked to the owners of the other caves. To my knowledge there have been no access issues at the other cave Great job Eddie. Way to screw climbers out of access. I believe the first ascents of those bolted lines were accomplished by folks like Lynn Hill and Russ Clune. Nothing but a bunch of low life, disrespectful, trespassing climbers right Eddie?

you have not lost anything! to loose you must first have been in possession. "you/they" did not posses the permissions needed to use any private land.

once again you seem to be very mixed in your definition on what happened here. remember, climbers overstepped their bounds! NOT the land owners. I have not ruined the access, unscrupulous climbers with poor ethics and no respect has ruined it! you seem to be very confused on what has happened here!

as i have stated time and time again, IF permission was gained BEFORE we would not be having this trouble!

one last thing....why not post your name ole RH? i feel we already know you but you continue to hide behind this moniker....hiding something? something we should know about? got a hammer drill? been trespassing recently? cottekill is very close seem to be taking this awful personal.....some one step on your toes while you we illegally climbing on people's caves? feel personally wronged cause now you got caught out, breaking the law?

there has been no access issues at the other caves BECAUSE THE LAND OWNERS DO NOT KNOW "YOU" HAVE BEEN TRESPASSING ON THEIR LAND! if they knew, climbing would have ceased long ago.

oh! and i have not been threatening any one! BUT i have been enlightening many many people along my way. i would like to add that people like our good friend RH have been adding plenty of fuel for me to push forward on my endeavor! you can all thank him for keeping this topic so close to my heart with some much energy......a better approach may have been something along the lines of how julie put it. a calm well thought out sympathetic approach would have been a much better road to travel down.....but apparently RH knows everything about conversation skills and getting what he wants.

#41604 - 11/13/08 06:29 PM Re: Rosendale Cave CLOSED TO CLIMBING [Re: Eddie]
The Lisa Offline

Registered: 04/26/05
Posts: 411
Loc: Da Bronx
I have to throw in my 2 cents and support Eddie. I have never met him - all I know is he is a landowner who has the right to control access to his land, not to mention what is done to it.
I could not imagine ever being the sort of person who would assume I had the right to walk in and start defacing someone's property.
There isn't plenty of rock in the area to climb on - legally - already?

As an aside, I think it would be really really cool to own a cave \:\)
Sent from my iPad.

#41607 - 11/13/08 07:08 PM Re: Rosendale Cave CLOSED TO CLIMBING [Re: The Lisa]
Eddie Offline

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1446
Loc: NP. NY
thanks lisa.

i would also like to thank all the people who understand and support me.

thanks for reminding me that not all climbers are irresponsible.

#41626 - 11/13/08 09:16 PM Re: Rosendale Cave CLOSED TO CLIMBING [Re: Eddie]
GOclimb Offline

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 2359
Loc: Boston
 Originally Posted By: Eddie
i have posted signs many many times, year after year. seems that they all grow feet and walk away. it is difficult to keep up with it i can assure you. i have added new fresh signs....yet again. BUT FWIW even if there are no signs does not insinuate passage is okay.

Yup, I know exactly how that works! My signs would first get shot, then get ripped down. Only thing that slowed down the ATVers that like to tear through my property was me putting big brush piles, and then fences, where they liked to head up onto my property from the road.

Simply put - some people have zero respect. Prosecute to the full extent of the law, is my suggestion.

By the way, I've done first ascents on private land (that wasn't my own). I asked permission in advance. I continued to go there and do low-impact climbing (no permanent hardware, only a few rap slings well camouflaged in trees), and maintained good contact with the landowners. Unfortunately the situation changed, and the landowners asked me not to use the cliff anymore. That was that, and I haven't been back.

So, Eddie, don't think that all climbers are asses. Because you know that's not true.


#41644 - 11/13/08 10:10 PM Re: Rosendale Cave CLOSED TO CLIMBING [Re: GOclimb]
learningtolead Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/16/02
Posts: 981
Loc: a wanna be kerhonkson-er
I clearly stated in my post that it was wrong of the person or persons to bolt Eddie's cave. I don't think anyone on this post has said otherwise. Yet he continues to cast aspersions at climbers in general and to reiterate that he wants to punish the whole group. That is what makes me think he is crossing a line.

Eddie, you have every right to be pissed and to actively keep people off your land. No problems there. But to also actively agitate against climbers and make blanket statements about wrong doing, lack of ethics, and liability is going too far, in my opinion. I think you're seriously overreacting. If you already know who did it, go kick their asses, by all means or keep trying to find out who did it. But most of us here have never knowingly climbed on private land or placed a bolt in their lives. I know I haven't. So going around telling neighbors and other community members that climbers are bad people who will deface land and sue you is offensive to me. I'm shocked that you've gotten the support for all of your outlandish comments that you have gotten here.

Yes, you were wronged, but no that doesn't justify you blowing your top at anyone and everyone. And honestly, if you look at all the bad things that happen to people every day, even the wrong that was done to you is minor in the scheme of things.

And oh the irony that you're now reformed in your respect for landowner rights. Does that reform happen to have coincided with the end of your active climbing career??

#41649 - 11/13/08 11:08 PM Re: Rosendale Cave CLOSED TO CLIMBING [Re: learningtolead]
LarE Offline

Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 45
Just for the record, I'm with you 100% Eddie. As far as the response from the climbing community, I'm not convinced that there is such a thing anymore. I find this all very depressing.

#41651 - 11/13/08 11:55 PM Re: Rosendale Cave CLOSED TO CLIMBING [Re: LarE]
empicard Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/29/01
Posts: 2954
Loc: LI, NY
LtL, how is stopping people from tresspassing punishing the whole group?

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

#41652 - 11/14/08 12:18 AM Re: Rosendale Cave CLOSED TO CLIMBING [Re: empicard]
Eddie Offline

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1446
Loc: NP. NY

you are way off base. you seem to be blind to what has happened. we have never seen eye to eye and it is again showing.

as far as i am concerned going to tell my neighbors MY experience is just that, my experience. they can make their decisions from there. are you afraid of what they think? you seem to be miss directing your feelings. you should be admonishing the climbers that have brought us to this point.
that is where you have gone like RH are after the wrong guy! you should be telling the offending climbers not me.

interesting you say you have NOT knowingly climbed on private is ALL private land unless it says it is public! all public land is posted so....if it is not posted IT IS PRIVATE! now you are more informed!

i am not going to kick any ones ass....not my style....better to have the state police do my dirty work for me....that is what they are paid for.

now you seem to think this is no big deal. why not put yourself in my shoes? you are a a land owner. would you appreciate if i showed up at your place and cut a tree or two down? would you be pissed then? how about i let myself in your house and spray paint the wall with some of my art? would you prefer i use the main room or the bedroom? same idea! you would not appreciate any of these things....but somehow you seem top be a bit blinded by what actually happened.

funny thing is YOU are the only member that does not seem to agree other than faceless newbies who just arrived! funny you question the support i have! that should tell you something! that should tell you i am on to something, i may be right and your ideas are far far off base! you seem to be spoiling for a confrontation! i suggest you really think about what you are saying....seems to me that you are in the minority here.....

i have been getting some very generous and helpful phone calls from concerned climbers from the area....they too seem to be with me on this one! thanks for the calls and thanks for all the offers to help! it makes me happy to see there are some good responsible climbers still around. thanks for coming out to remind me you still exist!

Edited by Eddie (11/14/08 12:29 AM)

#41672 - 11/14/08 04:23 PM Re: Rosendale Cave CLOSED TO CLIMBING [Re: Eddie]
sknowlton Offline

Registered: 01/15/07
Posts: 29
Loc: Nyack NY

While not a regular poster here, I am a regular "lurker" and I have been climbing in the Gunks for 30 years. I'm very sorry for your situation and I'm hopeful that the gunks climbing community---yes there IS one---can somehow make it up to you and with luck, help prevent just this sort of vandalism and trespass from happening to you and other landowners again. I fully understand your anger and I hope it will be eventually tempered by both time and the actions of resposible climbers who respect others' property rights.

Access is precious, and as you and others have stated, climbing is a privilege and not a right. Privileges are earned and lost by actions taken in relation to those privileges sought. I hope you can see beyond the thoughtless actions of a few and recognize that there are many of us here---both older and newer climbers---who recognize that it is msotly because of willing landowners like the Preserve, your neighbors and hopefully you again that we are able to experience the unique environment of our home crag.

All the best to you Eddie.
Steve K

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