Shout Box

Who's Online
0 registered (), 14 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#63056 - 03/13/12 12:45 AM New bolt/pin on Try Again?
fear Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/27/03
Posts: 221
Loc: New England
After blowing half a screamer on that rusting relic of a pin this weekend I vote to replace it with something more substanial. My 200 pound ass seemed to bend and move it a bit. Since the "Blue Camalot" placement block is laying at the base of the climb there's no really good backup for an otherwise difficult move with definite ankle snapping ledge below.

1/2" stainless bolt that'll last 20 years or another pin or two?




Edited by fear (03/13/12 12:46 AM)

Top
#63057 - 03/13/12 01:02 AM Re: New bolt/pin on Try Again? [Re: fear]
rg@ofmc Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/25/99
Posts: 2472
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
You'd have to talk to the Preserve about placing a bolt in a place where none exists. On the other hand, anyone can place and/or remove a pin.

I wonder whether the "rusting relic" you mention was the original pin I placed on the FFA in 1967. (I remember either a short-medium or possibly a short-thick Lost Arrow.) If so (but I rather suspect not), that pin has done as well as any bolt could be expected to.

Top
#63059 - 03/13/12 01:27 AM Re: New bolt/pin on Try Again? [Re: rg@ofmc]
curmudgeon Online   content
addict

Registered: 10/27/10
Posts: 466
I remember there used to be a rusted ring pin after you pulled the overhang before you reached the good holds.

It looked pretty suspect in the 70's but I clipped into it more than once.

Top
#63061 - 03/13/12 01:59 AM Re: New bolt/pin on Try Again? [Re: rg@ofmc]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1536
Loc: New Jersey
You must be joking right? No, I guess you're not.

When I fall leading most of the time the pro is over my head, or else I down climb and sit on it, or else I make the move. It's very rare that I am taking long screamers on protection, and it is rarely necessary. Why can't you do 5.9 until you can do 5.10 without taking wipers on your pro? What is the point if you can barely make it without taking terrible falls? Why don't you fall lower down while putting in a nut? Why can't you walk up to the top of the cliff and rap down to the anchor like I do and put a top rope on it? You can also put a shock absorber on it.

Putting bolts all over the place is not the right answer, especially when you are climbing in a place where people hate bolts and people know how to solve trad problems in other ways then turning them into sport climbs. The only reason there are bolts at the top of the cliff is to stop the traffic and erosion with loose rocks falling off all along the top of the cliff. Other than that there is only a few climbs where bolts were placed before I even started climbing over 30 years ago.
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

Top
#63069 - 03/13/12 01:43 PM Re: New bolt/pin on Try Again? [Re: donald perry]
fear Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/27/03
Posts: 221
Loc: New England
Replacing a 40 year old pin(s) with a bolt in a key spot is hardly turning it into a sport climb. There actually used to be a bolt. Some ancient 1/4 crater/stub is still there. I wasn't sure if the FFA's had a bolt there to begin with.

Hence, the question....

Top
#63070 - 03/13/12 02:01 PM Re: New bolt/pin on Try Again? [Re: fear]
NYZoo Offline
journeyman

Registered: 07/06/08
Posts: 59
Loc: Gunks
I know of a few people who have taken falls on that pin.. a couple over and over. perhaps it's time to replace it. I know I am very reluctant to bring the wall hammer out to the cliff with some pins and go hammering on a route, especially on one that's so popular.. even though the pin already exists there… I'd fear I was going to get the beat down for it (not a literal beat down of course). I imagine others feel the same..

I think the never falling on gear approach an old school train of thought. Today's gear is far better than the gear of days past and if set properly in good quality rock it will hold. In the local group of climbers I climb with, we push ourselves and we also fall from time to time and every once in a while take a whipper. Now there are plenty of no fall situations like on remote climbs or on long run-outs where I wouldn't want to fall but each climber needs to asses these situations and decide when retreat is a better option than going for it. When on single or two pitch G or PG climbs right off the road, I say go for it and get some.

Top
#63076 - 03/13/12 02:45 PM Re: New bolt/pin on Try Again? [Re: NYZoo]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1536
Loc: New Jersey
Try Again is not the climb you should be on right now. Do a different climb or let someone else lead it for you so you can second it.


Edited by donald perry (03/13/12 10:38 PM)
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

Top
#63080 - 03/13/12 05:23 PM Re: New bolt/pin on Try Again? [Re: donald perry]
rg@ofmc Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/25/99
Posts: 2472
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
There was no bolt and no pin present during the FFA 45 years ago. (I might add that no falls were taken by anyone in our party of three and there was no resting on or weighting of any piece. I led the route and did climb up and down a few times before committing to the moves.)

I placed a pin over the lip that is either the one under discussion or more likely one that has replaced my original Lost Arrow. My memory is that it is an excellent placement and that new pin in that spot, if required, will be good for many years.

I don't think the route is even close to being a candidate for a bolt. The real question is whether one could get in a small cam (or two? Or some Ballnuts?) if the pin was gone.

Forty-five years later, climbers ought to be aspiring to a better style of ascent, not a worse one.

Top
#63081 - 03/13/12 05:27 PM Re: New bolt/pin on Try Again? [Re: rg@ofmc]
chip Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 2679
Loc: Sittin' Pretty in Fat City
It is standard ethics to respect the views of the first ascensionists as to any protection "upgrades". Thanks RG.

Top
#63084 - 03/13/12 06:27 PM Re: New bolt/pin on Try Again? [Re: chip]
SethG Online   content
old hand

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 714
Loc: NYC
I don't know why these threads pop up so often. This question was resolved a few decades ago. The Preserve owns the cliff and the rules mandate no new bolts. It is totally academic whether a bolt there would be a bad thing, since the Preserve does not allow it.
_________________________
It's true, I have a blog. http://climbandpunishment.blogspot.com/

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >


Moderator:  Mike Rawdon, Steven Cherry 
Sponsored