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#63513 - 04/04/12 01:16 AM Accident on MF today
JordanF Offline
stranger

Registered: 06/06/11
Posts: 17
Around 2:30 or so toady, my partner and I met a pair starting MF, and then we went on and climbed Shockely's Ceiling. From the belay station, I saw the rescue and heard the climber (I'll keep his name off the board) in serious pain and probably shock. What I gathered later (third hand) was that he traversed wide w/o gear placed, then fell and swung and hit his head. Firstly, I hope he is well and will recover. Secondly, does anyone know more details that would be beneficial from a safety standpoint?

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#63518 - 04/04/12 03:06 AM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: JordanF]
SethG Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 709
Loc: NYC
So sorry to hear about this, I wish the climber a speedy recovery.

Just for clarity, I take it you're saying this was at the 1st crux on pitch one, the traverse around the corner? He clipped the pin but had nothing after that and went far right?
_________________________
It's true, I have a blog. http://climbandpunishment.blogspot.com/

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#63520 - 04/04/12 03:22 AM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: SethG]
MetalDemon Offline
stranger

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 6
Loc: NY
I was there today, I saw the fall from a slight distance, it was not pretty at all.
Dude was over the crux crossing over to the nut spot and he got his rope behind his leg. As he fell he flipped and hit his head just under the bulge after a decent fall.
He was lowered down and was in and out of consciousness with a lot of blood in the back of his head. With some effort we got him on the stretcher, down to the road and onto a rangers truck. That was the last I saw of him.
He definitely was in bad shape but his vitals was ok. I actually took some pictures of his blood soaked helmet which only had foam padding at the top and none in the back... where he hit his head...
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#63521 - 04/04/12 03:23 AM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: SethG]
fear Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/27/03
Posts: 221
Loc: New England
From a safety standpoint I'm pretty sure if it was the pin at the 1st crux that it can be backed up pretty well. But who knows, they might have gotten a leg or something in front of the rope and gotten flipped.

Helmet?

Hope the guy heals 100%

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#63523 - 04/04/12 04:22 AM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: fear]
SethG Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 709
Loc: NYC
Sounds awful, I hope he comes out of it okay.
_________________________
It's true, I have a blog. http://climbandpunishment.blogspot.com/

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#63538 - 04/04/12 04:33 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: SethG]
Nick Weinberg Offline
stranger

Registered: 06/29/10
Posts: 10
Loc: Albany, NY
I saw the whole thing unfold, as we were right next to him on Birdie Party, and we helped secure and evac him. With all due respect to the party involved, I would like to re-inforce several learning points here. I will try not to be too judgmental here, and instead I would like to focus on recognizing errors, avoidance, and in general, safer climbing.

The climber, from what I understood was relatively new to trad climbing, and got on MF. He got off route onto the 5.10R variation, got pumped, fell a couple of times hurting his ankle, then started working the second crux of MF, with his last piece over to the left on the variation. He got more pumped and frazzled. He aided through the second crux with a nut but did not clip the nut. He was concerned about leaving gear, and I think felt rushed because he had to go to work. He cleared the second crux and kept climbing up through jugs, but then fell about 25 feet. I beleive since his last piece was down to the left, the rope caught his leg. He was violently flipped upside down hitting the back of his head on the rock, knocked unconscious, and then hanging upside down. It was a horrible fall that I will never forget.

The main take home points I found were:

1) Its always better to bail, leave gear, or hurt your ego than to end up in the hospital.
2) When you get pumped and frazzled, better to stop, place gear, and/or lower, when you are above your climbing limit.
3) Nevel let the rope run behind your leg if you are in a situation in which you might fall. The key part of this accident was that the climber was flipped upside down, hitting his head.
4) Wear a helmet that protects your whole cranium, that will shatter on impact - not the hard-hat type.

Oh yeah, and as an aside, the preserve should invest in some new high quality C-collars to keep in the rescue box. The one we got was old, broken and dysfunctional. I will see if I can donate some from where I work.....

Also, everyone did a great job with a challenging rescue effort.

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#63542 - 04/04/12 04:54 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: Nick Weinberg]
retroscree Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 397
We can add....
protect early and often

learn how to route find and read the rock; if you're on a 5.9 and you find yourself trying significantly harder moves.....

if there's a great nut crack in front of your face and your last pro is "way out left" and reasonably well under you....

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#63543 - 04/04/12 05:04 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: Nick Weinberg]
JordanF Offline
stranger

Registered: 06/06/11
Posts: 17
Thanks for the details. I just wish there were a better way to have the safety and climbing mentality basics reinforced than through a serious injury.

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#63548 - 04/04/12 06:31 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: JordanF]
chip Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 2676
Loc: Sittin' Pretty in Fat City
Hopefully a great final outcome for the fallen climber. Thanks for the analysis, as we all need to hear it in order to avoid the more personal experience. I pray quick and full healing for the physical and emotional injury to the climber and all who witnessed/assisted.

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#63551 - 04/04/12 06:59 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: Nick Weinberg]
Bill Offline
journeyman

Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 85
Loc: Mass Land
Thoughts and prayers for the injured climber. Kudos to Nick and others who assisted in the response. If the GCC were to do a special fund raise for needed equipment for the rescue boxes I would be willing to contribute.

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#63553 - 04/04/12 07:47 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: Bill]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2090
Loc: SoCal
Originally Posted By: Bill
Thoughts and prayers for the injured climber. Kudos to Nick and others who assisted in the response. If the GCC were to do a special fund raise for needed equipment for the rescue boxes I would be willing to contribute.


Same thoughts & kudos here. I've been needing to contribute since last summer, just wanted to do something that was specifically needed. Sounds like C collars might be it.

Nick or Metal -- was it a standard climbing helmet?

Something else that is not said enough: kudos to Dick & the trail crew. I'm fairly sure the new trails have made rescues a bit easier and more secure.

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#63555 - 04/04/12 09:34 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: Julie]
pitfall Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/01/00
Posts: 1165
Loc: Albany
Another key point:
It helps to have an ER doc on the climb right next to you if something like this should happen. Nice job Nick.
_________________________

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#63556 - 04/04/12 09:50 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: pitfall]
SethG Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 709
Loc: NYC
I've deleted what I originally wrote, thought better of it.

The descriptions have been vivid and helpful. My prayers are with this person.


Edited by SethG (04/05/12 02:10 AM)
_________________________
It's true, I have a blog. http://climbandpunishment.blogspot.com/

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#63558 - 04/05/12 01:08 AM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: SethG]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2090
Loc: SoCal
Seth, I was reading that he fell juuuust below the chains?

Any updates on his condition would be appreciated.

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#63560 - 04/05/12 01:23 AM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: Nick Weinberg]
MetalDemon Offline
stranger

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 6
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Nick Weinberg
I saw the whole thing unfold, as we were right next to him on Birdie Party, and we helped secure and evac him. With all due respect to the party involved, I would like to re-inforce several learning points here. I will try not to be too judgmental here, and instead I would like to focus on recognizing errors, avoidance, and in general, safer climbing.

The climber, from what I understood was relatively new to trad climbing, and got on MF. He got off route onto the 5.10R variation, got pumped, fell a couple of times hurting his ankle, then started working the second crux of MF, with his last piece over to the left on the variation. He got more pumped and frazzled. He aided through the second crux with a nut but did not clip the nut. He was concerned about leaving gear, and I think felt rushed because he had to go to work. He cleared the second crux and kept climbing up through jugs, but then fell about 25 feet. I beleive since his last piece was down to the left, the rope caught his leg. He was violently flipped upside down hitting the back of his head on the rock, knocked unconscious, and then hanging upside down. It was a horrible fall that I will never forget.

The main take home points I found were:

1) Its always better to bail, leave gear, or hurt your ego than to end up in the hospital.
2) When you get pumped and frazzled, better to stop, place gear, and/or lower, when you are above your climbing limit.
3) Nevel let the rope run behind your leg if you are in a situation in which you might fall. The key part of this accident was that the climber was flipped upside down, hitting his head.
4) Wear a helmet that protects your whole cranium, that will shatter on impact - not the hard-hat type.

Oh yeah, and as an aside, the preserve should invest in some new high quality C-collars to keep in the rescue box. The one we got was old, broken and dysfunctional. I will see if I can donate some from where I work.....

Also, everyone did a great job with a challenging rescue effort.


I agree 100% with this.

I talked today to some folk who saw him fall at a more direct angle than me, they said it was semi obvious to them he was going to fall violently.
His helmet was a lighter weight plastic climbing helmet with no padding what soever in the back of the head. In the back there was a chin strap tightener circle that at best provided no protection.
I too would like info on his current condition, during his evac I noted he thought he was still climbing... hard images to bury, closure would be nice.


Edited by MetalDemon (04/05/12 01:28 AM)
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#63561 - 04/05/12 01:30 AM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: MetalDemon]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2090
Loc: SoCal
Metal, be kind to yourself for a bit. These things are hard to be around from any side, I know. Those images don't bury themselves.

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#63564 - 04/05/12 02:31 AM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: Julie]
MaxLasky Offline
stranger

Registered: 04/05/12
Posts: 7
I was belaying my buddy Corey when he fell yesterday on MF. Nick's account of the events is pretty dead on except Im pretty sure the rope was not wrapped around his leg when he took the tragic fall. Either way, its a scary and shocking reminder of how dangerous our sport inherently is.

I am pretty traumatized by seeing one of my good friends get so seriously injured, but am so happy and proud of the efficiency of his evacuation and the amazing competence and helpfulness of nearby climbers and by the Mohonk Preserve rangers.

Lets send Corey tons of love and healing energy and hope for a speedy and full recovery.

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#63572 - 04/05/12 10:13 AM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: Julie]
JordanF Offline
stranger

Registered: 06/06/11
Posts: 17
For all of those who saw the fall and aided in the rescue, it must have been traumatic. I had just set up the belay on Shockley's, and just hearing the poor guy throughout the rescue was enough to snap me out of climbing mode and make me wish I was still on the ground. When my partner reached the belay, we had to take some time to refocus before finishing the climb. Thanks to all who helped, and hopefully someone can pass along his condition.

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#63575 - 04/05/12 10:41 AM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: MetalDemon]
JordanF Offline
stranger

Registered: 06/06/11
Posts: 17
What specific helmet was it, do you know?

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#63581 - 04/05/12 12:12 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: Bill]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
moved, changed last paragraph


Edited by donald perry (04/05/12 07:28 PM)
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#63583 - 04/05/12 01:37 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: donald perry]
fear Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/27/03
Posts: 221
Loc: New England
Please adjust your meds.

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#63589 - 04/05/12 03:18 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: donald perry]
Adrian Offline
journeyman

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 73
Originally Posted By: donald perry
"I will try not to be too judgmental here, and instead I would like to focus on recognizing errors, avoidance, and in general, safer climbing."

Thanks, I would like to say something to, that I have said before. It takes 5 years to learn how to lead. Taking leader falls is something you should only consider after you have been climbing for at least that long.

Now when I say 5 years that is not a long time. I know what I am talking about, and I have had numerous close calls, but none lately that I can remember. [except for that incident with the camera I mentioned in my previous post] And because I am a steeplejack and before that lumberjack for over 30 years when I say 5 years you can translate that into 30 when you climb full time and you do not have to travel 2 hours to the cliff. Or you can think of it like this. If someone who works in NYC says that they have been climbing for 25 years, to someone who guides for a living, that could be understood as 150 years.

So the point I am trying to make is that 5 years is not a long time. During that time that you are learning to climb, if you are on something hard where you think you could fall, down climb and do something easier where you are not going to fall. I was taught this by Bill Ravitch when I first came to the Gunks. There is a lot to learn, and you will not learn everything in 5 years, but you should learn enough not to get hurt quite so easily.

I have said this before, and someone on this forum mocked me and said I did not understand that latest climbing trends. No, I understand them perfectly. Climbing accidents are predominately avoidable. A list of rules is not the answer so much as you need to know the answer without the list, *instinctively*.

Now, when you are ready to lead harder. This is how you do it. [this is basic rule, will not work in every situation] You go up and find good protection. After that you climb up, to get to the top? NO! WRONGWRONGWRONG! You climb up to put in another piece of gear. ONE PIECE OF GEAR! You are climbing to place gear, or you are climbing up to down climb back down, quick, and NOT TO JUMP OFF! If you see people with a whole rack of gear on them and 40 biners in the Gunks trying to lead hard, RIGHT THERE, you know they are clueless. You are going up to put in one piece, you don


Quote:
need much gear, just a few pieces. You are not top heavy.

Next, if you are climbing 5.11 now after 5 years you have now thrown all your slings away, except for maybe 4. THAT IS IT! If you have any more than that, it could be that you need another 5 years of climbing to figure out what I am talking about. BTW, you do not start off with that. This, what I am talking about is something that you work toward, it will not happen overnight that you can understand it. I have no rope drag when I climb, NONE and I really don't use slings very much. You can also use some stoppers to extend length if you are desperate.

How does this happen? Because like I said in the beginning, you are climbing to place gear not get to the top. This means then that you are going to happily down climb or lower down to adjust gear or remove gear. The romantic idea of climbing from bottom to top is not practical, you have to climb down once in a while and adjust the machine. You may need to tie down a piece with another piece so it does not come out. And if the climbing gets hard, and there is no protection over your head, then you have to down climb quite a bit and take falls close to the nut at first and work your way up or out.

You start at the bottom with a rack of gear and ascend like a god passing every frightening obstacle placing gear as you go like Brian Kim on Cybernetic Wall http://vimeo.com/4534537 ???

WRONG WRONG WRONG

That is something that happens later after you have the climb and the falls wired. I have already said far too much. All that is necessary for you to know is do not fall, and climb to place gear. If you get to the top, fine, if not, better. The most rememberable climbs are the ones you do not do. How was the gear is the question you need to be asking, not how was the climb.

"The climber, from what I understood was relatively new to trad climbing …"? All that is necessary for you to know *foremost* is do not climb at a grade where you will fall, and climb to place gear. A word to the wise is sufficient.

One more thing. When you get to the top please pick up the loose rocks and carry them back into the woods where they belong.

And one more thing. Do not bring your babies up to the face of the cliff, you are endangering the welfare of a minor. How about a construction site or next to a loud wood chipper sucking in tree trunks? Do you think they would let you on construction sites with a baby-in-backpack? The cliff is dangerous, things and people are always falling off it. If you are going to ignore that then at least keep this what I said in mind, there are starving sharks in these waters.

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#63590 - 04/05/12 03:23 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: donald perry]
retr2327 Offline
member

Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 108
Nothing like a lecture on safety from a belayer who almost cratered his son because he was operating a video camera at the same time . . .

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#63591 - 04/05/12 03:24 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: donald perry]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
.


Edited by donald perry (04/06/12 09:55 AM)
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#63592 - 04/05/12 03:26 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: retr2327]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
.


Edited by donald perry (04/06/12 09:56 AM)
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#63595 - 04/05/12 04:16 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: donald perry]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2090
Loc: SoCal
Folks, let's please hope the moderator chooses this opportunity to be active (!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

and let's please not antagonize the less-than-stable in this thread. Just move along.

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#63596 - 04/05/12 04:35 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: donald perry]
retr2327 Offline
member

Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 108
"What matters is not whether you make mistakes or not"

It's certainly true that we all make mistakes, and it's important to learn from them when they happen. But it's also true that sometimes it does matter when you make a mistake, and learning from the mistake won't necessarily erase the consequences that the mistake produced.

So it's not a bad idea to at least try to avoid making the more obvious mistakes in the first instance, and I'd think that operating a video camera while belaying might fall in that category, at least under normal circumstances.

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#63598 - 04/05/12 05:00 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: MaxLasky]
ianmanger Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 04/25/03
Posts: 319
Max, sorry to hear about this. Can you (or anyone else) just clarify as I'm trying to visualize it. Corey climbed through the direct corner above the pin (i.e didn't step around to the right per MF regular), then aided through the 2nd crux but didn't clip the nut he used. So where was the piece 'down and left' that he fell on? At the 1st crux roof?

best wishes for a speedy recovery.

Ian

Originally Posted By: MaxLasky
I was belaying my buddy Corey when he fell yesterday on MF. Nick's account of the events is pretty dead on except Im pretty sure the rope was not wrapped around his leg when he took the tragic fall. Either way, its a scary and shocking reminder of how dangerous our sport inherently is.

I am pretty traumatized by seeing one of my good friends get so seriously injured, but am so happy and proud of the efficiency of his evacuation and the amazing competence and helpfulness of nearby climbers and by the Mohonk Preserve rangers.

Lets send Corey tons of love and healing energy and hope for a speedy and full recovery.

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#63601 - 04/05/12 05:20 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: retr2327]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
.


Edited by donald perry (04/06/12 02:09 PM)
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

Top
#63604 - 04/05/12 05:29 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: Bill]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
.


Edited by donald perry (04/06/12 09:57 AM)
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#63605 - 04/05/12 05:36 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: donald perry]
Adrian Offline
journeyman

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 73
Nutjob.

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#63607 - 04/05/12 06:00 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: donald perry]
Nick Weinberg Offline
stranger

Registered: 06/29/10
Posts: 10
Loc: Albany, NY
Ian,

He had gear on the direct variation to the left of and in between the two cruxes on MF. He then traversed right onto the normal MF route in between the cruxes. He may have placed another piece before getting onto the normal route. He then climbed/aided through the second MF crux with a nut that was not clipped, so from where he fell, which was above the second crux, his last clipped piece of gear was a ways down and to the left. My partner, who was above him, thought his leg got caught on the rope, but his leg may have been caught on a sling, or a feature in the rock, since he did fall over the prominent left-facing MF corner. Either way he got flipped upside down with a lot of force due to the length of the fall, and I think the fact that his gear was off to the side contributed to this type of fall. If that nut had been clipped he would not have fallen nearly as far, and would likely not have been flipped since his gear would have been directly below him.

Again, I don't want to place blame or judge here. Most of us, myself included, have probably made lots of mistakes while climbing over the years that could have ended in disaster. Instead, I'd rather systematically evaluate what happened to help make climbing safer, along the lines of the Accidents in North American Mountaineering reports.

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#63608 - 04/05/12 06:15 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: Nick Weinberg]
fear Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/27/03
Posts: 221
Loc: New England
Thanks Nick.

Isn't there a big 'ol pin right before that second crux? I can't remember if it's to the left or right but I do remember clipping something iron. Maybe he just missed that?

So he fell from above the second pitch crux roof all the way past the first crux corner? Jeebus!

Any word on how he's doing?

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#63609 - 04/05/12 06:27 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: fear]
retroscree Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 397
Originally Posted By: fear
So he fell from above the second pitch crux roof all the way past the first crux corner? Jeebus!

I thought we were talking about the second crux on the first pitch - the sequential bulge that ends when you step left to the chains.

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#63610 - 04/05/12 06:29 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: fear]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2090
Loc: SoCal
Nick, it sounds like it's still unclear: did he fall from the crux on the second pitch, or the second crux on the first pitch?

Two more questions, if you will or if you even know this much: first, about the climber: did he seem to be aware of the possible hazards of his position? From what was said above, it sounds like he knew he was at the extent of his climbing ability, since he pulled on gear; but did he know he was off-route? did he know how far above the last piece he was? did he know he'd not clipped the last nut?

And second, was his belayer helping him to be aware of his position and gear and leg/rope interactions?

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#63611 - 04/05/12 06:41 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: JordanF]
MaxLasky Offline
stranger

Registered: 04/05/12
Posts: 7
Jordan, Corey was wearing a BD Half Dome helmet.

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#63612 - 04/05/12 06:54 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: ianmanger]
MaxLasky Offline
stranger

Registered: 04/05/12
Posts: 7
Ian, Corey aided through the second crux after several attempts and after taking 2 small falls. Finally, with the advice of the climbing party to the left of us, Corey aided through the crux and pulled above it. Unfortunately he did not clip the nut he had used as a ladder. At this point the piece of gear that he had been hanging off while working the crux was about 10 feet below as he was working up and to the left of the crux (where the fixed chains are) . As he fell he was pendulumed upside down and the back of his head was first to make impact with the rock. He made contact with the rock slightly above and to the right of the first crux.

Like I said, I dont think he had the rope wrapped around his leg which is something that really scares me.

Max

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#63613 - 04/05/12 07:13 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: MaxLasky]
ianmanger Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 04/25/03
Posts: 319
Max, thanks. That seems consistent with Nick's description. This was all on the 1st pitch. He seems to have fallen just before the climbing eases off and you step left to the chains. A fall of 25ft would put one close to the 1st crux roof i.e 10-12ft above the last piece or so with attentive belay and is consistent with that description IIRC. The gear he fell on was placed while he worked the section above the roof, not at the roof itself if I understand this correctly. So no suggestion that gear failed, just failed to clip? Thats very distressing. again, speedy recovery to your friend.

be safe out there.
ian


Originally Posted By: MaxLasky
Ian, Corey aided through the second crux after several attempts and after taking 2 small falls. Finally, with the advice of the climbing party to the left of us, Corey aided through the crux and pulled above it. Unfortunately he did not clip the nut he had used as a ladder. At this point the piece of gear that he had been hanging off while working the crux was about 10 feet below as he was working up and to the left of the crux (where the fixed chains are) . As he fell he was pendulumed upside down and the back of his head was first to make impact with the rock. He made contact with the rock slightly above and to the right of the first crux.

Like I said, I dont think he had the rope wrapped around his leg which is something that really scares me.

Max


Edited by ianmanger (04/05/12 07:14 PM)
Edit Reason: clarity

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#63615 - 04/05/12 07:30 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: donald perry]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
.


Edited by donald perry (04/06/12 09:53 AM)
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#63616 - 04/05/12 07:31 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: donald perry]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
.


Edited by donald perry (04/05/12 09:03 PM)
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#63618 - 04/05/12 08:09 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: donald perry]
Adrian Offline
journeyman

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 73
nuts.

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#63621 - 04/05/12 08:56 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: Adrian]
jakedatc Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/18/06
Posts: 241
edited due to other stuff being removed


Edited by jakedatc (04/06/12 02:53 PM)

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#63622 - 04/05/12 09:02 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: jakedatc]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
.


Edited by donald perry (04/06/12 09:59 AM)
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#63623 - 04/05/12 09:23 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: jakedatc]
oenophore Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 5968
Loc: 212 land
From fall to flame in 42 posts -- whadda forum! frown
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#63627 - 04/05/12 10:13 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: oenophore]
jakedatc Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/18/06
Posts: 241
Originally Posted By: oenophore
From fall to flame in 42 posts -- whadda forum! frown


so you think an accident forum with parts of the climbing party and rescue effort present is a place for someone getting up on a soapbox and telling everyone who will read a full page of rambling how people *should* climb according to him?

There was a perfectly good conversation about how, why and how to prevent and in comes the super hero (in his on psychotic mind) to tell everyone how they should do it.

i think the belayer, victim and rescue folks deserve better than to be lectured at.

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#63628 - 04/05/12 10:17 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: jakedatc]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
.


Edited by donald perry (04/06/12 09:59 AM)
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#63631 - 04/05/12 10:40 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: donald perry]
SethG Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 709
Loc: NYC
I'd really love to know if anyone has any information about how this poor fellow is doing. The descriptions of the fall he took have been perhaps too vivid and he is in my thoughts constantly.

Also just fyi, what I remember from last November is that the first pitch has only one pin, the one before the first crux. (It is easy to place a back-up cam right next to it.) I understand there used to be another pin after you went around the corner to escape the overhang, but that one is gone. There is a good little slot for a purple Camalot, though. This is on the regular route, howver, and if you went up direct you wouldn't get this purple Camalot.
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It's true, I have a blog. http://climbandpunishment.blogspot.com/

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#63636 - 04/06/12 01:50 AM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: jakedatc]
JordanF Offline
stranger

Registered: 06/06/11
Posts: 17
Thank you. In such a forum folks should be seeking only good Karma.

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#63641 - 04/06/12 05:20 AM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: JordanF]
Nick Weinberg Offline
stranger

Registered: 06/29/10
Posts: 10
Loc: Albany, NY
This was all on the first pitch. I don't beleive any gear ripped. I think Max was an attentive belayer and did everything right. We did suggest the possibility of aiding through, which clearly didn't end well, so I think in retrospect, we should have told him to just lower off of gear and call it a day.

Also, I think that given the high impact force of his head on the rock, even with a more ideal helmet, I can't imagine that he wouldn't still have a serious head injury.

And finally, who is this donald perry character??? I am intrigued. He is apparently well known to this community?? Very bizarre.....


Edited by Nick Weinberg (04/06/12 05:21 AM)

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#63658 - 04/06/12 02:11 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: Nick Weinberg]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2090
Loc: SoCal
It does sound like Max was pretty on top of it, and Corey had people watching out to help him.

Despite the details, there is the underlying truth that accidents happen, climbing has inherent risks, people flip just by the chance of a hitch mid-fall regardless of where the rope is. Maybe the helmet wasn't ideal, but maybe a more ideal helmet wouldn't have helped in a different way. It's hard to accept, or maybe hard to *know* if you've gotten to the depths of accepting it.

Please, any updates on Corey's condition are appreciated. I'm sure we're all thinking about him.

(ps -- Adrian, maybe delete your quoting post now that Don's done the same?)


Edited by Julie (04/06/12 02:20 PM)

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#63663 - 04/06/12 02:25 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: Julie]
alicex4 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/05/00
Posts: 3400
Prayers and positive thoughts Corey, Max and family.

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#63678 - 04/06/12 06:00 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: alicex4]
SethG Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 709
Loc: NYC
I know from personal experience that a swinging fall can cause a flip without the rope being behind your leg. I flipped when my ankle hit the cliff.
_________________________
It's true, I have a blog. http://climbandpunishment.blogspot.com/

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#63681 - 04/06/12 06:16 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: Nick Weinberg]
fear Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/27/03
Posts: 221
Loc: New England
Most climbing helmets these days IMO are really poorly designed for serious impacts and are rather delicate. Check out the shitty coverage most afford the front and sides of the skull. I think they're designed more to be light and comfortable so that people will wear them. It's a catch-22 since if it's a hard shell 5 pound motocross-style helmet, nobody would wear one.

I'm glad this poor guy had something on his head though and hopefully it reduced the impact and extent of his head trauma.

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#63684 - 04/06/12 07:20 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: fear]
MetalDemon Offline
stranger

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 6
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: fear
Most climbing helmets these days IMO are really poorly designed for serious impacts and are rather delicate. Check out the shitty coverage most afford the front and sides of the skull. I think they're designed more to be light and comfortable so that people will wear them. It's a catch-22 since if it's a hard shell 5 pound motocross-style helmet, nobody would wear one.

I'm glad this poor guy had something on his head though and hopefully it reduced the impact and extent of his head trauma.

I think climbing and motorcycle helmets have very similar idea. The hard shell ones actually save the skulls from impact more but end up snapping the neck or result in massive inner head trauma from force. The foam lighter "cheaper feeling" helmets are meant to shatter and absorbs more blunt force.
I think the rule of thumb for helmets is that the hard shells protect against rock fall which is why you'd see more rock guides using them. The plastic foam ones are much better for falls involving head impacts. The worst case scenario is using a helmet that has a plastic outer shell with no foam where you actually hit your head. You don't get the hard shell benefits or the foam absorptions.
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#63686 - 04/06/12 08:23 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: MetalDemon]
KathyS Offline
member

Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 196
Loc: NY, USA
Yes, this is why I like the BD Tracer. Not only is it one of the few helmets that fits my small noggin, but it has foam all around, much like a bike helmet. For ice, I use a hard-shell Grivel, because repeated impacts from ice chunks are much more likely than a swinging fall (for me, anyway), but even it has some perimeter foam.

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#63708 - 04/07/12 05:14 AM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: Bill]
MaxLasky Offline
stranger

Registered: 04/05/12
Posts: 7
I visited Corey at the hospital last night and it was really comforting to see his family and talk about what happened. Corey is doing much better than originally anticipated and on thursday doctors were able to take him off of life support. Since then, he has been talking and breathing on his own. We are all extremely happy that he is completely able to move his arms and legs normally, with no apparent altered sensations. When I visited Corey in the ICU, he was pretty agitated and uncomfortable but was able to fully recognize me and even told me that he missed me.

Lets all hope that he continues this awesome progress. I will continue to keep the community updated on my buddy's recovery

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#63713 - 04/07/12 09:08 AM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: Bill]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
Dear Max And Corey I apologize to you for not being able to very helpful to you guys, I am not very good at expressing myself in writing as I am sure you can tell by now. But I am trying; I hope you can forgive me in this. I want you to know that I have been in your situation many times before and I know what you are going through. And I want you to know foremost that you need to stop going over in your mind what has happened, the details, and blaming yourselves. Neither does anyone else here blame you for what has happened; you have done nothing to be embarrassed of. You must not blame your selves in these things. Yes, some poor judgments were made, yes things could have been done different, but Corey and Max that is always the case always. No matter what we do things could have always been done better and we are always taking chances, it is unavoidable. We are just like you, we are all human, so do not feel ashamed.

Nevertheless, this generation of climbers and this era of climbing that you have entered into is a generation which is predominantly oblivious to the things of the generation that I come from. And here what I am trying to say is that had you entered into climbing in my generation back in the 70's there would have been people who would have come and mentored you and encouraged you in their ways. But these men are all gone it seems, and their paths have vanished away like roads in the sand. If you do find a need to blame someone, if your family finds a need to blame someone tell them to blame us, blame this climbing community. We should all know better by now to not have abandoned and left behind what our fathers had taught us and the world that they gave us. And I am no different in this. Perhaps you can help reverse these trends in our climbing community and make our world a better place, I hope so, and I hope to see you again soon up at the cliff perhaps. May God be with you and God bless you in all that you do. Get well soon.
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#63714 - 04/07/12 12:01 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: donald perry]
SethG Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 709
Loc: NYC
Thanks for the update Max, that is great news.
_________________________
It's true, I have a blog. http://climbandpunishment.blogspot.com/

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#63718 - 04/07/12 03:28 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: SethG]
MetalDemon Offline
stranger

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 6
Loc: NY
Thanks Max, good to hear. Hope to see you both climbing soon!
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#63719 - 04/07/12 03:35 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: MetalDemon]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2090
Loc: SoCal
Thanks, Max. So glad to hear that.

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#63964 - 04/14/12 11:25 AM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: Julie]
SethG Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 709
Loc: NYC
Any updates on Corey's condition?
_________________________
It's true, I have a blog. http://climbandpunishment.blogspot.com/

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#64059 - 04/19/12 03:22 AM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: SethG]
MaxLasky Offline
stranger

Registered: 04/05/12
Posts: 7
I visited Corey last week and he was doing much better than when I saw him a few days after the accident. He is now out of ICU and will be in rehab most likely for a few weeks with a complete and full recovery.

When I visited him he was psyched to see me and seemed way more comfortable and coherent. He remembered climbing with me on April 3rd and remembers getting on MF but he doesnt recall the fall. Hes excited to get out climbing again ASAP and is in mostly good spirits.

Corey, his family, and I are all very grateful for everyone who saved his life that day and the team that gave him immediate care are really all heroes.

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#64062 - 04/19/12 09:52 AM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: MaxLasky]
JordanF Offline
stranger

Registered: 06/06/11
Posts: 17
Good news, thanks for the update.

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#64063 - 04/19/12 11:52 AM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: JordanF]
Rickster Offline
old hand

Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 845
Loc: Orange Cty, NY
Thanks for the news, seems miraculous when the news is so positive after such an accident.

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#64065 - 04/19/12 12:03 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: Rickster]
whatthegunks Offline
member

Registered: 05/09/09
Posts: 135
Loc: High Falls, NY
Hi Max. Glad to hear Corey is on the mend. I am wondering if he was helicoptered to Westchester or did he go in the ambulance, do you know?

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#64068 - 04/19/12 02:02 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: whatthegunks]
chip Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 2676
Loc: Sittin' Pretty in Fat City
Excellent news!

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#64069 - 04/19/12 02:04 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: chip]
fear Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/27/03
Posts: 221
Loc: New England
Tell him at least he got injured on something with a kick-ass name and reputation.

I figure I'll probably crater on "Pink Bunny" or something....

Sounds like he'll be fine. Great news.

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#64071 - 04/19/12 03:45 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: fear]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2090
Loc: SoCal
Thank you so much for posting, Max, I think we're all super glad to hear Corey will recover fully. Best to him.

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#64072 - 04/19/12 08:31 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: Julie]
MaxLasky Offline
stranger

Registered: 04/05/12
Posts: 7
Corey was airlifted to Westchester Medical Center's trauma center. If it weren't for the speedy evac thanks to the rescuers and available helicopter, it is unlikely the Corey would have survived the accident.

Corey told me has no interest in trying to redpoint MF smile

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#64076 - 04/19/12 10:25 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: MaxLasky]
SethG Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 709
Loc: NYC
That's incredible news! I hope he is aware everyone in our little online community has been pulling for him. Thanks for letting us know.
_________________________
It's true, I have a blog. http://climbandpunishment.blogspot.com/

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#67731 - 04/04/13 07:15 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: SethG]
SethG Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 709
Loc: NYC
Nice article about Corey's accident and recovery.

... Young Climber Keeps Moving Upward
_________________________
It's true, I have a blog. http://climbandpunishment.blogspot.com/

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#67733 - 04/04/13 11:20 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: SethG]
TerrieM Offline
addict

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 425
Loc: Gunks in Summer, Southwest in ...
Thanks for posting - what a story!

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#67734 - 04/04/13 11:39 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: TerrieM]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2090
Loc: SoCal
Thanks for posting that. Wonderful.

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#67737 - 04/05/13 12:26 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: Julie]
chip Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 2676
Loc: Sittin' Pretty in Fat City
Wow.

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#67738 - 04/05/13 01:41 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: chip]
KathyS Offline
member

Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 196
Loc: NY, USA
Always a relief to hear a good outcome from a serious accident.

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#67741 - 04/05/13 07:05 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: KathyS]
oenophore Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 5968
Loc: 212 land
Originally Posted By: KathyS
Always a relief to hear a good outcome from a serious accident.
This must have been very costly. There's not a word in the article about paying for all that hospital care.
_________________________

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#67742 - 04/05/13 09:48 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: oenophore]
TerrieM Offline
addict

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 425
Loc: Gunks in Summer, Southwest in ...
Well, I guess that would be a personal issue that the writer didn't feel the need to address. Hopefully the young man had great insurance that took that burden off his mind(which is what insurance WAS intended to do originally).

But did anyone else get queasy when reading that his removed skull portion was "stored" in his abdomen????

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#68654 - 08/26/13 11:47 AM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: TerrieM]
gunks Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/26/01
Posts: 84
Loc: Rosendale, NY
Just read on MP that Corey died last week in a climbing accident in Lumpy Ridge
http://www.mountainproject.com/v/lumpy-ridge-fatal-accident/108303718

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#68655 - 08/26/13 12:18 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: gunks]
Gail Offline
journeyman

Registered: 08/01/07
Posts: 95
Loc: Gardiner, NY
What a tragedy! Condolences to all involved.

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#68657 - 08/26/13 03:49 PM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: Gail]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2090
Loc: SoCal
Wow. Heartbreaking.

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#68663 - 08/27/13 06:39 AM Re: Accident on MF today [Re: Julie]
SethG Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 709
Loc: NYC
So sad.
_________________________
It's true, I have a blog. http://climbandpunishment.blogspot.com/

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