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#63113 - 03/14/12 04:50 PM Re: New bolt/pin on Try Again? [Re: donald perry]
fotovult Offline
member

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 142
Loc: ny
My bad - I read it quick and thought Last Frontier.
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#64120 - 04/23/12 11:36 AM Re: New bolt/pin on Try Again? [Re: rg@ofmc]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1536
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: rg@ofmc
There was no bolt and no pin present during the FFA 45 years ago. (I might add that no falls were taken by anyone in our party of three and there was no resting on or weighting of any piece. I led the route and did climb up and down a few times before committing to the moves.)

I placed a pin over the lip that is either the one under discussion or more likely one that has replaced my original Lost Arrow. My memory is that it is an excellent placement and that new pin in that spot, if required, will be good for many years.

I don't think the route is even close to being a candidate for a bolt. The real question is whether one could get in a small cam (or two? Or some Ballnuts?) if the pin was gone.

Forty-five years later, climbers ought to be aspiring to a better style of ascent, not a worse one.



Sorry, just wanted to ask a question. I am playing the devil's advocate and just making conversation.

If there was no place to put a pin there just over the lip, would everything still be the same. Would the first ascent still have gone ahead as planned or would it have been interrupted with much down climbing and lengthy hesitations. Would it have still happened on the same day or if not the next?

What do you think would have happened if there was no place to put a pin over the lip?
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The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#64127 - 04/23/12 03:06 PM Re: New bolt/pin on Try Again? [Re: donald perry]
NYZoo Offline
journeyman

Registered: 07/06/08
Posts: 59
Loc: Gunks
bigger whippers would have happened (and still be happening) just like RG's story of the FFA attempt by Romano when the pin wasn't there...

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#64128 - 04/23/12 06:42 PM Re: New bolt/pin on Try Again? [Re: fear]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1536
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: fear
After blowing half a screamer on that rusting relic of a pin this weekend I vote to replace it with something more substanial. My 200 pound ass seemed to bend and move it a bit. Since the "Blue Camalot" placement block is laying at the base of the climb there's no really good backup for an otherwise difficult move with definite ankle snapping ledge below.

1/2" stainless bolt that'll last 20 years or another pin or two?




http://vimeo.com/3976756

This is an interesting video you might like. Finding bolts in trad climbs is something new to me.


Edited by donald perry (04/23/12 07:18 PM)
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#64133 - 04/23/12 10:52 PM Re: New bolt/pin on Try Again? [Re: donald perry]
rg@ofmc Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/25/99
Posts: 2472
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
Originally Posted By: donald perry
Originally Posted By: rg@ofmc
There was no bolt and no pin present during the FFA 45 years ago. (I might add that no falls were taken by anyone in our party of three and there was no resting on or weighting of any piece. I led the route and did climb up and down a few times before committing to the moves.)

I placed a pin over the lip that is either the one under discussion or more likely one that has replaced my original Lost Arrow. My memory is that it is an excellent placement and that new pin in that spot, if required, will be good for many years.

I don't think the route is even close to being a candidate for a bolt. The real question is whether one could get in a small cam (or two? Or some Ballnuts?) if the pin was gone.

Forty-five years later, climbers ought to be aspiring to a better style of ascent, not a worse one.



Sorry, just wanted to ask a question. I am playing the devil's advocate and just making conversation.

If there was no place to put a pin there just over the lip, would everything still be the same. Would the first ascent still have gone ahead as planned or would it have been interrupted with much down climbing and lengthy hesitations. Would it have still happened on the same day or if not the next?

What do you think would have happened if there was no place to put a pin over the lip?


Donald, you are asking me what we would have done in 1967 if things had been different and you think I'm going to give anything other than a self-serving answer?

Ok, I'll try. I'm pretty sure we would have done it anyway with lower protection. I almost never fell on routes (Coex was an exception at the time), because I went up and down until I had everything worked out. So I think that's what would have happened here, but I'm not sure the ascent would have taken any longer, because even with the pin there I went up and down a bunch and there wasn't much left to chance by the time I climbed the pitch. Pretty much the same behavior would have gotten me up it without the pin.

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#64136 - 04/23/12 11:55 PM Re: New bolt/pin on Try Again? [Re: rg@ofmc]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1536
Loc: New Jersey
Thanks for the clarifcation. I think that explains a lot about climbing made subject to thinking and skill.
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The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#71267 - 04/07/14 02:30 AM Re: New bolt/pin on Try Again? [Re: donald perry]
SethG Online   content
old hand

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 714
Loc: NYC
I was on Try Again today and it seems there is a new pin.

I hope the person who installed it put it in more securely than the new pin on Feast of Fools, which fell out a few weeks ago...
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#71277 - 04/07/14 03:11 PM Re: New bolt/pin on Try Again? [Re: SethG]
Coppertone Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/17/00
Posts: 1055
Loc: Newtown, CT
You can get a bomber nut in the corner before pulling the roof. I never placed a cam in that block that come off a few years back. You can also get a nut about a foot over the roof up and to the left.

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#71279 - 04/07/14 04:07 PM Re: New bolt/pin on Try Again? [Re: Coppertone]
SethG Online   content
old hand

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 714
Loc: NYC
I had bomber nuts in the corner but was very glad to have the shiny new pin a few feet higher. Wish I'd seen the nut you mention above the roof, I will look for that placement next time!
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