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#64450 - 05/01/12 07:38 PM Re: New campground planned [Re: Mark Heyman]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
It seems like if the current proposal would nix the pavilion gatherings and get some enforceable conduct language this would be acceptable to some of those neighbors who are now opposed. Is this accurate?
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#64552 - 05/03/12 10:58 AM Re: New campground planned [Re: Advocacy group]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
Anyone notice a cleaner MUA this week?

MPNA
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#64635 - 05/04/12 10:46 AM Re: New campground planned [Re: Advocacy group]
joe2 Offline
stranger

Registered: 05/04/12
Posts: 2
If you build it they will come. Its not really feasible that they would build a pavillion and then not use it. The pavillion has bathrooms - it is there specifically for gatherings and events. That is its purpose, rather than anything to do with camping.

Now, can such large groups safely enter and exit the road there? I say no.

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#64638 - 05/04/12 11:42 AM Re: New campground planned [Re: joe2]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
Originally Posted By: joe2
If you build it they will come. Its not really feasible that they would build a pavillion and then not use it. The pavillion has bathrooms - it is there specifically for gatherings and events. That is its purpose, rather than anything to do with camping.

Now, can such large groups safely enter and exit the road there? I say no.


Thanks for posting Joe. It seems like a reasonable request of the neighbors to ask that the Mohonk Preserve nix the Pavilion and to have a reasonable set of rules that can be enforced. Please sign the petition that Susan Lewis has started on Change.org

Thanks, MPNA
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#64644 - 05/04/12 01:46 PM Re: New campground planned [Re: Advocacy group]
crimpy Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 07/02/11
Posts: 331
Loc: Wawarsing
it seems as though you represent the %1.
you dont have to insult me though, just my opinion.
i have confidence that hikers and climbers are skilled enough for ulster county road crossings.

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#64646 - 05/04/12 02:01 PM Re: New campground planned [Re: Advocacy group]
ianmanger Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 04/25/03
Posts: 319
Hey AG, I doubt skl would want you to misrepresent her groups intentions. Reading the MOA that Susan and her group proposed, there's no language in the Jan 24th letter about 'nixing the pavilion' only limiting the size and frequency of gatherings. (4 per year, max 100 people each). That's the latest proposal that Susan shared with me.

If that's been updated, please PU, (see, I'm asking nicely)

(never mind, I asked skl if she would clarify, hopefully she will.)


Edited by ianmanger (05/04/12 02:09 PM)
Edit Reason: update

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#64650 - 05/04/12 02:34 PM Re: New campground planned [Re: ianmanger]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
Originally Posted By: ianmanger
Hey AG, I doubt skl would want you to misrepresent her groups intentions. Reading the MOA that Susan and her group proposed, there's no language in the Jan 24th letter about 'nixing the pavilion' only limiting the size and frequency of gatherings. (4 per year, max 100 people each). That's the latest proposal that Susan shared with me.

If that's been updated, please PU, (see, I'm asking nicely)

(never mind, I asked skl if she would clarify, hopefully she will.)



Hey Ian Manger, I think the last meeting we attended was after the 24 th. At any rate, at the meeting there was strong opposition to "the pavilion" and for all intents and purposes that means the proposed events that the Mohonk Preserve wants to hold there. Even Carl Zatz proposed just eliminating the pavilion so the dialog could continue. While some neighbors may just want to limit the use of the pavilion, others want a less bloated, lighter on the land campground while others want the whole idea canned. What it looked like to us at the meeting was that the neighbors came in with very reasonable requests and the Mohonk Preserve and PIPC ignored the most important requests like the pavilion and alcohol issue.

Thanks, MPNA
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#64653 - 05/04/12 02:58 PM Re: New campground planned [Re: Advocacy group]
ianmanger Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 04/25/03
Posts: 319
Yes, I get that there would be a diversity of opinions on this but somehow the neighbors have previously reached a consensus about what they would find acceptable and made a set of proposals around that. I agree that having those proposals ignored is frustrating. If that consensus is shifting/hardening from simply limiting use, that's helpful to know. Thanks.

Originally Posted By: Advocacy group



Hey Ian Manger, I think the last meeting we attended was after the 24 th. At any rate, at the meeting there was strong opposition to "the pavilion" and for all intents and purposes that means the proposed events that the Mohonk Preserve wants to hold there. Even Carl Zatz proposed just eliminating the pavilion so the dialog could continue. While some neighbors may just want to limit the use of the pavilion, others want a less bloated, lighter on the land campground while others want the whole idea canned. What it looked like to us at the meeting was that the neighbors came in with very reasonable requests and the Mohonk Preserve and PIPC ignored the most important requests like the pavilion and alcohol issue.

Thanks, MPNA

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#64654 - 05/04/12 03:28 PM Re: New campground planned [Re: ianmanger]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
The way it appeared to us was that the neighbors were looking for clarification from Mohonk Preserve and PIPC about the use of the pavilion and PIPC and Mohonk Preserve really danced around the issue. Jim Hall is particularly curt to the point of being nasty and often brings up that the PIPC does not have to follow local zoning. All the while Glenn Hoagland and Ron Knapp sit there nodding their heads. Again we're not sure why the campground just can't be placed on the north side of 299. This would eliminate any trespass, light pollution and place the campsites far away from these neighbors. It would also eliminate the issue of people having to cross 299 to access the Mohonk Preserve.

Thanks, MPNA
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#64676 - 05/04/12 08:28 PM Re: New campground planned [Re: ianmanger]
skl Offline
stranger

Registered: 09/11/11
Posts: 4
Hi all,

Sorry for the slow response to a direct request for clarification above (and apologies in advance for any future delays—I'm not able to check in as often as I'd like). The proposals from the group I'm involved with haven't asked that the pavilion be deleted from the plan. Rather, they've asked only for limits on public events at the pavilion—especially ones bringing non-campers to the site—including their size, frequency, etc. That was true in our initial proposals last year, and continues to be true in our most recent proposal (late March—available on the Facebook page mentioned upthread).

There are different opinions about this. A town official mentioned the possibility of deleting the pavilion at the meeting preceding our March proposal, and some agree that removing the pavilion from the plan altogether could do more to prevent any potential problems related to public events than the limits we've proposed would. But the organizations planning the campground seemed to feel strongly that the pavilion was an important part of the plan and they didn't want to delete it. I personally feel that the limits we proposed instead are an acceptable compromise, assuming the organizations involved agree and they're formalized and enforced.

Best,
Susan

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