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#64229 - 04/26/12 12:58 PM Re: New campground planned [Re: oenophore]
charliebutters Offline
addict

Registered: 11/11/01
Posts: 510
Loc: accord
are the bruderhof involved at all?

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#64230 - 04/26/12 01:18 PM Re: New campground planned [Re: GuilfordGang]
ianmanger Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 04/25/03
Posts: 320
Yeah, don't do FB, but thats Ok. I saw Susan's docs. Good luck.



Originally Posted By: GuilfordGang
All documents I have are now posted and available for download on the Facebook site, check the docs tab if you decide to join.

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#64240 - 04/26/12 02:26 PM Re: New campground planned [Re: ianmanger]
chip Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 2679
Loc: Sittin' Pretty in Fat City
I have stayed at the ACC Climber's Ranch in the Tetons twice. The pavillion is a perfect central meeting place for cooking and evening get togethers before everyone heads to bed. The rowdiest party I have seen there was a memorial service, which consisted of low volume music, drinking and the usual lies/stories about climbing. This would be a considerable inprovement on the current MUA, which was the site of my bachelor party many moons ago, back when it saw few campers and we had the entire area to ourselves on a beautiful May weekend.

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#64241 - 04/26/12 02:28 PM Re: New campground planned [Re: Mike Rawdon]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2090
Loc: SoCal
Originally Posted By: Mike Rawdon
Originally Posted By: Advocacy group
These are people you should be trying have a good relationship with. A few bad apples will ruin it for all. If neighborly relations continue to sour you can bet that Future projects will be met with strong opposition and more land will likely close (more on that later). Thanks, MPNA


Quoted for posterity.


And let's not forget this, from the person (excuse me, "group") that wants to strong-arm us, the mostly-weekender climbing population, into supporting his cause against the Preserve that feeds us:

Originally Posted By: Advocacy group
How many acres do you own in the land of subdivisions? Chances are the weekender you are trying to portray is you (minus the land). There are landowners around these parts who have had land in their families since the 1700's as well as people who just bought today....they all have the same say in our opinion. The people who do not have a say is You, the non land owning, non local, overdeveloped Jersey boy type. Look, if you don't like our delivery stop responding. The fact is your group has acted and continues to act like a group of spoiled children. You'll get the respect and civil dialog when you earn it. Until then, you'll be treated like the brats you are (said in a motherly calm voice) and get the response you deserve.


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#64254 - 04/26/12 06:06 PM Re: New campground planned [Re: Julie]
Mark Heyman Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1123
Loc: South Jersey (Pinelands)
Now that you agree with us, you'll find or form a more influential group and quit badgering us?

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#64261 - 04/26/12 07:33 PM Re: New campground planned [Re: Advocacy group]
Mark Heyman Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1123
Loc: South Jersey (Pinelands)
Originally Posted By: Advocacy group
It's interesting that the town of gardiner and Mohonk Preserve are represented by the same attorney.



In the same case?

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#64262 - 04/26/12 08:14 PM Re: New campground planned [Re: Mark Heyman]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
Originally Posted By: Mark Heyman
Originally Posted By: Advocacy group
It's interesting that the town of gardiner and Mohonk Preserve are represented by the same attorney.



In the same case?



There is no "case" or lawsuit yet. The Gardiner town attorney is Paul Kellar and he is also the Attorney for Mohonk Preserve. From what we have read he has advised both parties.

Thanks,MPNA
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#64268 - 04/26/12 11:10 PM Re: New campground planned [Re: Advocacy group]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2090
Loc: SoCal
Originally Posted By: Advocacy group
280+ person pavilion. As per the last meeting....


To set things straighter AG ever will: the docs I saw include the same very small pavilion as before, as posted in the 2009 plans linked above.

Most of what I saw is the neighbors looking for very specific, and mostly fairly reasonable, rules and/or limits on the campground. It didn't look like the proposing groups had basically gotten around to being that specific yet, or at least from what I saw. It's unfortunate that this has already gotten to lawyers.

Separately, the plans also call for the possibility of up to 4 events of 300+ (this number seemed to grow with each iteration, and I'm not sure why) person gatherings, only to be held by the MP or the AAC, and which would end by 10 pm.

I tend to agree with their point that any group looking to host a 300+ person event ... really needs to find another space to do it in, and those spaces do already exist, that doesn't land in a bunch of backyards. Can you imagine a 300+ person gathering at the MUA? I think the neighbors are also worried about the precedent of allowing bigger MP/AAC events there, and whether that could eventually lead to private parties.

I can only cross my fingers that an agreement is reached that satisfies the neighbors, and that the campground comes to pass.

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#64270 - 04/27/12 01:13 AM Re: New campground planned [Re: Advocacy group]
Mark Heyman Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1123
Loc: South Jersey (Pinelands)
Originally Posted By: Advocacy group
Originally Posted By: Mark Heyman
Originally Posted By: Advocacy group
It's interesting that the town of gardiner and Mohonk Preserve are represented by the same attorney.



In the same case?



There is no "case" or lawsuit yet. The Gardiner town attorney is Paul Kellar and he is also the Attorney for Mohonk Preserve. From what we have read he has advised both parties.

Thanks,MPNA


If they aren't represented by a lawyer, they can't be represented by the same lawyer.
More misrepresentation.

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#64275 - 04/27/12 12:56 PM Re: New campground planned [Re: Mark Heyman]
charliebutters Offline
addict

Registered: 11/11/01
Posts: 510
Loc: accord
500 yards is over 1/4 mile, seems ok to me.

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