Ok RetroMarcC........ but I believe you meant "why do you think we live in Utah and we're this MarcC guy" Fixed that for ya......

Ya see! there YOU go again with the "continue increasing OUR donations" . Just face it RetroMarcC, You have not increased Your donation to the preserve. Your name is not even on their donors list. Nice try though.......ROFL

Too funny . . . coming from a guy who calls himself a "Group"

How could you know if my name is on the donors list when you don't know my name? And you still insist on confusing me with this MarcC guy for some reason.

Because A.G. is a big fat nihilistic, hate filled troll.

It's astonishing to me that Gunks Climbing Coalition/Access fund has had zero impact and input on this project. Illustrates their unfortunate irrelevance.

Also that American Alpine Club has been in zero communication with Gunks climbers about its involvement. Quite arrogant and wrong-headed, in my view.

Astonishing that discussion on this site has mainly revolved around concern of a few residents that attractions of Gunks may impact their privacy rights. One might think discussion here would instead be about the interests of climbers.

I am opposed to the AAC/Mohonk campground because its primary goal to is shut down free camping at MUA, a place that I like very much, and that could be expanded and made sustainable through simple, but deliberately ignored expedient of a rough parking lot.

Its supposed "problems" have never been studied, quantified or documented in any way that might justify its closing. I don't believe they are significant.

On less than 20 out of 365 days a year, is a bit crowded at MUA. But is free, and you can always stay there. AAC campground will be mostly closed during the year, and mostly, space will not be available.

So how is this an improvement?

I was banned from this site for insisting on these questions a year ago, and I am sure they are of little interest now.

I suggest the AAC/Mohonk campground at least redeem itself by offering weekly rock/rap concerts, heavily promoted on billboards throughout the region, during the few months it will be open annually.

yessssssss......

Sandia, in Oct 2008 at a well attended gathering of old and new Gunks climbers held at the MP visitor center, then AAC president Jim Donini, past AAC president Jim McCarthy and others outlined plans for what was hoped to become a reality for the new campground. The AAC and Mohonk are not the only groups involved in the venture.

It is in the interest of climbers to be concerned about how the campground comes to be and how it effects the community.

Not a peep out of AAC in four years?

So your point is what?

Are you defining community to include a half-dozen small property owners along with the 50,000 "climber-days" per season?

GCC guy likes to call this tiny group the "stake holders." Is politi-speak for wanna-be state representatives. Then you've got the millionaire bird-watcher creeps more-or-less running Monhonk. Also "stakeholders."

When I reached current AAC president three years ago (with great difficulty only following multiple emails to many board members) and inquired, his claimed his awareness of MUA issue was zero.

He said he wasn't interested.

Sandia,
My point was that the AAC did make it's plans known. Since then the other partners took over the process of developing this project.

Why wouldn't "community" include a half dozen small property owners. Would it be better if they were large property owners. I don't agree with their fears of what may happen at the new facility when it comes about, but they do have a stake in this as members of the community.

You've used the term 50,000 "climber days" per season. I am not sure what that has to do with what makes up a community.

Have you some info regarding the dates of the new campground's season? I've not seen it posted or printed. What exactly is this short season?

Do you also mean that the "GCC guy" or maybe the "stake holders" are "wanna-be state representatives"? Even if that were so, what does it matter?

You certainly seem terribly disgruntled that you were not involved in this process. That's unfortunate, I wasn't involved either, so were a lot of other folks. I beleave many are good with that. Unfortunately, it seems now that there are more than a few on both sides of the argument that feel left out of the loop.