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#68259 - 06/11/13 04:57 AM Re: Shawangunk Anchors - Wish Lists and Updates [Re: chip]
rg@ofmc Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/25/99
Posts: 2471
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
Here's the comment:
Quote:
The webbing on the tree has almost been cut through.

There is one rope that looks good but the double fishermans has short tails. I was pretty sketched on the rappel but just added another double sling around the tree for the belay up.

Might just want to head past the tree and set up your own anchor and walk off.


It's hard to tell what the situation is: it sounds as if there is a piece of webbing and a piece of rope, the webbing is almost cut through and the rope has short tails on its knot.

Pardon my French, but holy shit!

The guy leaves an almost severed sling in place so someone else can be killed by it? (Not to worry, he reports it on Mountain Project, which of course everyone reads before attempting Double Chin.) CUT THE DAMN SLING OFF IF IT IS NO GOOD.

I can't believe he left it there. Can't believe it.

The guy is fully aware of the simple walk-off and yet chooses a rappel that in his judgement is "sketched out"? Yikes! Was a tsunami barreling over the Catskills heading straight for the top of Double Chin? IF THE ANCHOR IS BAD, CUT THE WHOLE THING OFF AND REPLACE IT IF YOU CAN, OTHERWISE WALK OFF.

It is far better to leave no anchor than one you judge to be "sketchy." Someone with some extra webbing or cordage will soon replace a missing anchor, and in the meantime parties who suddenly find they have to get back down without rapping will surely rise to meet this challenge, once they recover from the shock and horror of being stranded all the way at the top of Double Chin.

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#68262 - 06/11/13 01:14 PM Re: Shawangunk Anchors - Wish Lists and Updates [Re: rg@ofmc]
chip Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 2676
Loc: Sittin' Pretty in Fat City
Amen, RG.

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#68264 - 06/11/13 02:59 PM Re: Shawangunk Anchors - Wish Lists and Updates [Re: chip]
whatthegunks Offline
member

Registered: 05/09/09
Posts: 136
Loc: High Falls, NY
Early last month I replaced the ancohor material on P1 of Sixish. I used 7mm cord and combined the three pins with a half sized tri-cam equalized to a master point with a pair of aluminum rap rings. I also cut out the shit show of an "anchor" on the totally dead (and all too skinny anyhow) tree between Drunkard's roof and Sixish. I felt like this provided a not totally ideal but way more safe rappel for this area (more ideal if anchor were not quite so far off to left of first rap and not sharing typical belay stance for P1 of 6ish).

I was amazed on Saturday to find that somebody had taken the cordalette, rings and tri-cam that I left. This, to me, is stealing. I assume that the party either had an ethical issue with the anchor or was so tight on money that they needed my less than brand new tri-cam and 7mm cord. Either way it's still not something easy to defend. If anybody notices an older .5 tri-cam out there on somebody's rack that has JV etched on the side of it please let me know, I'd love to have a talk with them.

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#68266 - 06/11/13 03:28 PM Re: Shawangunk Anchors - Wish Lists and Updates [Re: whatthegunks]
rg@ofmc Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/25/99
Posts: 2471
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
Joe, I happened to do Sixish last Wednesday with a visitor from California and was delighted to find the anchor up there totally clean. I'm sorry your stuff got taken, and I can assure you that I would not have done that myself, but I think the incessant proliferation of rap anchors in the Gunks is an unmitigated bad thing and the removal of that anchor is actually for the best. We've already had an interchange about this in general upthread, but this particular location is a prime example of what not to do:

Stacking ascending and descending parties on that ledge is about as bad an idea as it is possible to have. Encouraging parties to rap off one of the classic three-pitch routes, with every pitch good for those climbing at the grade, is plain wrong-headed.

My personal opinion is that good as your intentions are, you are doing a disservice when you encourage rapping straight down ascent routes, encourage crowding at small stances, and encourage blocking good multipitch climbs by installing rap stations at the first pitch. I'm sorry your stuff got taken--- even though it isn't your stuff at all once you leave it up on the cliff---and I sincerely hope you will not go back and replace that particular anchor.

The best thing that could happen by far, as those pins deteriorate, is that they get removed and the stance, which has plenty of opportunities for gear placements, reverts to a more natural state.

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#68270 - 06/11/13 05:53 PM Re: Shawangunk Anchors - Wish Lists and Updates [Re: rg@ofmc]
whatthegunks Offline
member

Registered: 05/09/09
Posts: 136
Loc: High Falls, NY
Right, so we'll continue to disagree.

That my stuff was no longer mine once I pulled the rope and walked away does not change the fact that somebody went through the trouble of dismantling a fairly safe anchor and pocketted the gear; totally lame. Nobody took the tat that was there before, nor the pile of tat on the tree above, they just STOLE the newer gear.

I'll wager that anchor will be reestablished by the end of the month and not by me, I made my donation.

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#68272 - 06/11/13 08:08 PM Re: Shawangunk Anchors - Wish Lists and Updates [Re: whatthegunks]
Julie Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 2090
Loc: SoCal
Re: Double Chin .... totally LOL, Rich.

Re: "shit show of an "anchor" on the totally dead (and all too skinny anyhow) tree between Drunkard's roof and Sixish." -- thank you for chopping that one. I think that appears when someone tries to rappel with a single 60 from the GT at Drunkard's because hey you can rappel everywhere with a single 60, right? But yeah. Shit show.

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#68273 - 06/11/13 08:48 PM Re: Shawangunk Anchors - Wish Lists and Updates [Re: whatthegunks]
Rickster Offline
old hand

Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 847
Loc: Orange Cty, NY
Originally Posted By: whatthegunks
...somebody went through the trouble of dismantling a fairly safe anchor and pocketted the gear....


Maybe the fact that it was only a "fairly safe anchor" had something to do with the gear being removed? confused

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#68275 - 06/11/13 10:29 PM Re: Shawangunk Anchors - Wish Lists and Updates [Re: whatthegunks]
kenr Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/05/10
Posts: 36
Originally Posted By: whatthegunks
Early last month I replaced the anchor material on P1 of Sixish. I used 7mm cord and combined the three pins with a half sized tri-cam equalized to a master point with a pair of aluminum rap rings.


I'll guess that for descending you intended to reach this P1 anchor by rappelling from the GT ledge. Not completely obvious how to get from the top of P3 of Sixish down to the GT ledge (since the top of Sixish P3 is not such an inviting spot to rappel from).

Anyway I note that once on the GT ledge near the top of P2 of Sixish, it is straightforward to walk horizontally southwest on the GT ledge to the Kamasutra rappel anchor, with bolts and chains. From there it's straightforward to make two single-rope rappels to the ground. (I'm not recommending this approach for descending from top of Sixish, only suggesting that it's better than using the popular + narrow Sixish P1 anchor).

Of course this does include rappelling down a possible ascent route, but:
(a) the Kamasutra bolt-and-chain anchors were installed by the Mohonk Preserve, pretty obviously intended for rappeling;
(b) Kamasutra P2 is rarely climbed upward, and Kamasutra P1 virtually never.

And of course it's very straightforward to just walk off from the top of Sixish with no rappeling at all -- first find a way up toward the top of the ridge, then follow the ridge trail roughly southwest to one of the descent routes near the Uberfall and down-climb to the Undercliff carriage road. (or if cannot handle class 4 or low class 5 down-climbing, can continue following the trail roughly southwest until it comes to a long but easy scramble down to hit the carriage road just a bit east from the "practice rock".

Ken


Edited by kenr (06/11/13 10:32 PM)

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#68276 - 06/11/13 11:08 PM Re: Shawangunk Anchors - Wish Lists and Updates [Re: whatthegunks]
retroscree Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 397
Originally Posted By: whatthegunks
I was amazed on Saturday to find that somebody had taken the cordalette, rings and tri-cam that I left. This, to me, is stealing.

No. It's called removing trash. A rap anchor there is stupid.

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#68281 - 06/12/13 12:46 AM Re: Shawangunk Anchors - Wish Lists and Updates [Re: kenr]
kenr Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/05/10
Posts: 36
Son of Easy O P2 top anchor as of June 9 was composed of steel chains, steel rings, and three pitons.

This location also makes a nice intermediate belay for P2 of Easy Overhang -- good for a leader to stay in sight of and in communication with a follower who might be struggling to figure out the "easy" way to do the overhang at the start of Easy O P2.

Seemed like the ledge was big enough and the anchor well-positioned horizontally so it can be shared by parties on both Easy Overhang and Son of Easy O.

Ken


Edited by kenr (06/12/13 12:47 AM)

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