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#60143 - 09/14/11 12:59 PM New campground planned
skl Offline
stranger

Registered: 09/11/11
Posts: 4
I'm one of the neighbors of the proposed campground on Route 299, west of the existing Multi-Use Area. My house is one of nine within 200 yards of the land on which the campground is slated to be built. Twenty-one homes are within 500 yards. Most of us are climbers, hikers, mountain bikers etc, so we have a shared interest in preserving access to the outdoors, the peace, and the quiet of the Gunks.

We're not trying to stop the campground from being built: we agree that providing camping options is important. But everyone is aware of the problems at the MUA. This new proposed campground will be bigger and more closely surrounded by many more houses, so we'd like to avoid a situation where this new campground just scales up and intensifies those conflicts.

The Palisades Interstate Park Commission (PIPC) owns the land and plans to build the campground. PIPC plans, for now, to allow the Mohonk Preserve and the American Alpine Club to manage the campground after it's constructed. We've met with PIPC and the Preserve and appreciate some of the management policies they've said they intend to have, like having a manager on site and noise limits. However, PIPC is claiming to be exempt from the local zoning laws that the town of Gardiner created specifically for projects like this, and refusing to provide any other mechanism for guaranteeing that any agreements about the campground design or management remain in place.

I'm posting here because the campers create the local culture at a campground, and members of this forum may be among those campers, so you should be aware of the discussion. A lot of things that could help reduce the impact of the campsites on the surrounding houses would likewise reduce the impact of the surrounding houses on the campsites and the campsites on one another. I'm looking forward to reaching solutions that let the campers and the existing homes around them coexist peacefully.

Best regards,
Susan Lewis

(FYI: There's a map at http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/view?q=sh...210434452006978 with the campground site marked in yellow and surrounding houses circled in orange. The green markings in the center of the site are wetlands. If you want to see the original without the markings, this is from Ulster County's web map application at http://gis.co.ulster.ny.us/. Zoom in to the intersection of highways 299 and 44/55 until the "Aerial Photos" layer is enabled, then select the "2009 Infrared" layer. The campground site is the fourth plot from the intersection, on the south side of 299. The blue things on the surrounding plots are houses, driveways, businesses and parking lots. For wetlands, select the "Federal Wetlands" layer under "Water Resources.")

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#60144 - 09/14/11 03:11 PM Re: New campground planned [Re: skl]
chip Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 2674
Loc: Sittin' Pretty in Fat City
Thanks Susan, for a nice presentation of realistic concerns by someone who would likely be most effected. Imagine PIPC feeling they can do whatever they want?!

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#60180 - 09/15/11 08:03 PM Re: New campground planned [Re: skl]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
Originally Posted By: skl
I


Who is the lawyer for the town of Gardiner? Likewise who is the lawyer for the Mohonk Preserve?
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#60182 - 09/15/11 08:18 PM Re: New campground planned [Re: Advocacy group]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
It's interesting that the town of gardiner and Mohonk Preserve are represented by the same attorney.
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#64129 - 04/23/12 08:52 PM Re: New campground planned [Re: Advocacy group]
GuilfordGang Offline
stranger

Registered: 04/23/12
Posts: 15
Loc: Currently Boston Area
Ok, bit of a latecomer to this discussion and I hate to dig up old threads, but we'd like to find out more information about this proposed campground. We have land that is in *very* close proximity to the site and have full intention to have a home there (if the real estate market ever picks up and we can get rid of our current house). Not weekenders, mind you. Full time.

What's the current state of affairs? Online news reports seem to indicate that the project is stalled. Any truth to this?

We'd also like to find a direct source of info about the planned use of the site. If it were strictly tents and the occasional trailer with a small, on-site facility for offices and a restroom, I think we'd have no opposition to it. It could provide a small boost for the EMS, Brauhaus, and Bistro, along with the nearby farm stand market. I don't think a campground like that would affect neighboring property value, which I think is a concern for full time residents.

However, if it were to host large trailers, multiple facilities and a venue for events, we'd be concerned. Anything that might attract or allow year-round or long term tenancy at such a place would be cause for us to get involved in some serious opposition to the project. This would negatively affect those living nearby with noise, traffic, trespassing and the like.

Please don't think I'm anti-camping, I've camped my way across the country and have seen many campgrounds, the good and the bad.

Any info is appreciated.

Susan, I think it was you that sent out the letters. Thanks for the heads-up, hope we're not riding to the fight too late.


Edited by GuilfordGang (04/23/12 09:00 PM)

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#64130 - 04/23/12 10:08 PM Re: New campground planned [Re: GuilfordGang]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
Originally Posted By: GuilfordGang
Ok, bit of a latecomer to this discussion and I hate to dig up old threads, but we'd like to find out more information about this proposed campground. We have land that is in *very* close proximity to the site and have full intention to have a home there (if the real estate market ever picks up and we can get rid of our current house). Not weekenders, mind you. Full time.

What's the current state of affairs? Online news reports seem to indicate that the project is stalled. Any truth to this?

We'd also like to find a direct source of info about the planned use of the site. If it were strictly tents and the occasional trailer with a small, on-site facility for offices and a restroom, I think we'd have no opposition to it. It could provide a small boost for the EMS, Brauhaus, and Bistro, along with the nearby farm stand market. I don't think a campground like that would affect neighboring property value, which I think is a concern for full time residents.

However, if it were to host large trailers, multiple facilities and a venue for events, we'd be concerned. Anything that might attract or allow year-round or long term tenancy at such a place would be cause for us to get involved in some serious opposition to the project. This would negatively affect those living nearby with noise, traffic, trespassing and the like.

Please don't think I'm anti-camping, I've camped my way across the country and have seen many campgrounds, the good and the bad.

Any info is appreciated.

Susan, I think it was you that sent out the letters. Thanks for the heads-up, hope we're not riding to the fight too late.



You're not too late to join the fight. You should contact Susan and get updates from her. She seems to be spearheading this and has been at all the meetings. The plan is to make this a large campground with "pavillion" to host "events" of up to 280 people. certainly not a low impact project. This campground will most certainly change your area so it would be a good idea to join the dialog. Feel free to PM us if you need the support of other neighbors from around the Mohonk Preserve.

Thanks, MPNA
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#64132 - 04/23/12 10:27 PM Re: New campground planned [Re: Advocacy group]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
The Mohonk Preserve has basically partnered with PIPC so they can circumvent the Gardiner zoning laws. Here are a few issues that you might think about.

1. 200 campground users having to cross 299 two times a day.
2. The non campground use of the "pavillion"
3. Traffic on 299
4. Noise from partying/alcohol overuse.
5. Putting the campground on the north side of 299 where all of the above (except traffic) would be eliminated.
6. Why is the Town and Mohonk Preserve represented by the same attorney (Paul Kellar)

Thanks, MPNA
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#64135 - 04/23/12 11:23 PM Re: New campground planned [Re: Advocacy group]
oenophore Online   confused
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 5934
Loc: 212 land
The plan is to make this a large campground with "pavillion" to host "events" of up to 280 people

Where is that written?
_________________________

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#64140 - 04/24/12 12:08 AM Re: New campground planned [Re: oenophore]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
GARDINER, NY - 6/26/2002 - Today, the Open Space Institute (OSI) announced the donation of a 45-acre parcel of land in the foothills of the Shawangunk Ridge, which will be used as a public campground for visitors to the area. The land is being donated by OSI's land acquisition affiliate, the Open Space Conservancy (OSC), to the Massachusetts-based Appalachian Mountain Club (AMC).

Located in the Town of Gardiner in Ulster County, along Route 299 as it approaches a notch in the ridge known as the Trapps Gateway, the proposed campground was acquired by OSI in 1996, as part of a larger effort to protect an area known as the Trapps Gateway. The acquisition was made possible with funding from the Lila Acheson and DeWitt Wallace Endowment Fund. During the past five years, OSI has acquired several parcels in the Gateway area, totaling approximately 160 acres.

Some 500,000 visitors come to the Trapps Gateway area each year, to hike, rockclimb and cycle, and currently, there are limited camping opportunities in the vicinity. The proposed campground is less than one mile from the Trapps and Near Trapps, two extensive cliffs on the Mohonk Preserve that provide some of the best rock climbing on the East Coast. In recent years, mounting pressure on the ridge for camping has led to overuse of informal campgrounds, creating sanitation, fire, and patrol issues, and also resulting in degradation of the Trapps Gateway area.

"This campground will provide much-needed low-cost accommodations for visitors who come from all over the country to enjoy the incredible recreational virtues of the Gunks," noted Joe Martens, President of OSI. "It has been rewarding to work with our partners at AMC and Mohonk Preserve to make this campground a reality."

AMC will construct and operate a primitive campground with roughly 50 tent sites. The AMC has broad experience in providing services for outdoors enthusiasts and currently operates over 50 camps, lodges, huts and shelters in the Appalachian region.

"We are very pleased to partner with the Open Space Institute to help conserve the Gunks," said AMC Executive Director Andrew Falender. "The creation of a campground in this area will enable us to provide information and other support services to help visitors both enjoy and wisely use this wonderful area. We always try to provide an overnight experience that will inspire our guests to protect the region's precious outdoor resources."

"The Mohonk Preserve welcomes this creative solution among partners to the protection and compatible use of lands adjacent to the Mohonk National Landmark Landscape," said Glenn D. Hoagland, Executive Director of the Mohonk Preserve.
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#64141 - 04/24/12 12:11 AM Re: New campground planned [Re: Advocacy group]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
This was the early proposal before it became a bloated project that will cost $25/ camper. The Pavillion has been written about numerous times in the local papers. We'll try and find the info.

Thanks, MPNA
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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