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#65197 - 06/03/12 10:19 PM Re: Prescribed Burns [Re: Rickster]
Advocacy group Offline
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Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
Originally Posted By: Rickster
Originally Posted By: Advocacy group
Since the 1870's the average fire in all of NYS has been less than 50 ac. Most years show much less than 15000 total acres burned in the entire state. Fire would have to happen much more regularly to be a factor in the northeast ecosystem.


If looking at the total acres in NYS as you posted, shouldn't you add in the total burned acres for the entire NE before you could routinely say that "....... more regularly to be a factor in the northeast ecosystem? Rather it should read.... more regularly to be a factor in the NYS ecosystem.


fair enough. The fact still remains that the overlook fire was a man made fire, not natural. This is the problem with the Mohonk Preserves position of prescribed burning. They say that fire is a natural part of the shawangunk ecosystem and then use the overlook fire to show that if they do not burn a "natural" fire like the overlook fire will happen. Scare tactics to initiate a dangerous burning program.
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#65198 - 06/03/12 10:21 PM Re: Prescribed Burns [Re: Advocacy group]
Advocacy group Offline
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Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
It still shows by the way that naural fire could not possibly be an important part of the forrest ecosystem in NYS.
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#65199 - 06/03/12 10:26 PM Re: Prescribed Burns [Re: retroscree]
Advocacy group Offline
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Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
Originally Posted By: retroscree
Originally Posted By: Advocacy group
Since the 1870's the average fire in all of NYS has been less than 50 ac. Most years show much less than 15000 total acres burned in the entire state. Fire would have to happen much more regularly to be a factor in the northeast ecosystem.

If anyone wants to see the actual numbers instead of agenda-driven propaganda averages, take a look at:
http://www.dec.ny.gov/lands/42438.html



If anyone wants to see RetroMarcC blow another fuse keep following this thread.
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#65203 - 06/03/12 11:59 PM Re: Prescribed Burns [Re: Advocacy group]
Rickster Online   content
old hand

Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 850
Loc: Orange Cty, NY
Originally Posted By: Advocacy group

Try reading your own links jackass......


If anyone wants to see Advocacy Group blow another fuse keep following this thread.

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#65211 - 06/04/12 02:08 AM Re: Prescribed Burns [Re: Advocacy group]
Mark Heyman Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1123
Loc: South Jersey (Pinelands)
How a fire starts is irrelavant. It poses the same danger regardless.

Originally Posted By: Advocacy group
Hey MarkHeyman, while we may have alienated some, our feeling is that there will always be people who are unreasonable, have an agenda, simply do not care, selfish, etc. Again, we are not trying to get you on our side, we are focused on the neighbors, locals and elected officials. If a few outside people get involved or engage us in some constructive dialog that helps us focus and hone our message so be it. But we can and enjoy sparring with the idiots as well. Again you get the dialog you deserve. If you treat us with respect we will reciprocate. If you turn it into a flame fest we can hang in that medium as well.
So back on topic. Fire is not part of the Northeast for the following reasons
1.lightning strikes account for less than 3% of all fires.
2. Lightning usually occurs during rain when the forest cannot burn
3. Most lightning in the northeast is not cloud to ground lightning it's cloud to cloud.
4. Take a look at our mountains and show me one area that has burned due to lightning in the past 100 years. If our forests depended on fire it would happen much more frequently.

3 people died and 29 houses were destroyed in Colorado this past march due to a prescribed burn that started out as a 50 ac burn. The same size as the duck pond burn.


Originally Posted By: Mark Heyman
We should note that the mention of "natural" fires is irrelevant. The risk that home owners are exposed to is uncontrolled forest fire. It makes no difference whether a fire that burns their home was started naturally or unnaturally. It might well be that more fires are started by careless humans, but it simply doesn't make a difference in their overall risk.

Reducing the fuel load in a forest by prescribed burns in a forest can significantly reduces the overall risk, not increase it. Some home insurance companies offer discounts for meeting standard fire prevention guidelines which can include prescribed burns to this effect.

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#65212 - 06/04/12 02:09 AM Re: Prescribed Burns [Re: Advocacy group]
Mark Heyman Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1123
Loc: South Jersey (Pinelands)
Originally Posted By: Advocacy group
It still shows by the way that naural fire could not possibly be an important part of the forrest ecosystem in NYS.


But how a fire started is irrevalant. It poses the same danger regardless. Prescribed burns may help protect a home from any outside fire.


Edited by Mark Heyman (06/04/12 02:12 AM)

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#65219 - 06/04/12 11:22 AM Re: Prescribed Burns [Re: Advocacy group]
cfrac Offline
addict

Registered: 04/26/08
Posts: 462
Originally Posted By: Advocacy group
Cfrac, the mohonk preserve is not the same as the landowners that own Lantern hill or Farley ledge and other private lands that are free and currently open to the public. We fully support Private landowners who allow access to their private property. We don't support many of the tactics that the Mohonk Preserve uses to acquire land. We are currently working on a tri state land access database that we think will be good for all landowners. It involves a partnership of land that is currently closed with land that is currently open and will be similar to Stopken.org except on a larger scale. The basic idea is that if you trespass on closed land you are then banned from all participating open lands as well. No one likes trespassers, even the Mohonk Preserve. As far as not liking anything about the Mohonk Preserve, nothing could be further from the truth. We look forward to the day when they can coexist in peace with all of their neighbors.

Thanks, MPNA


Here is a question that the MPNA/Advocacy Group refuses to answer. Why do you post as different people? Why all the obfuscation? The person quoted above sounds like the person who previously posted as Kent whereas the person who posted "Read your own links Jackass" sounds like the original Advocacy Group poster.
I participate in several different outdoors forums and one science forum and I have never encountered "multiple posters" for the same account. Honestly, it comes across as very creepy and as time goes on it becomes more transparent. I realize neither of you will answer me, but why not support your cause by posting as individuals and developing an online personality that doesn't seem so schizophrenic?

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#65220 - 06/04/12 12:11 PM Re: Prescribed Burns [Re: cfrac]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
FYI, I never post as AG/MPNA.

Edited to add: I think prescribed burns are a good idea.



Edited by Kent (06/04/12 12:33 PM)

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#65222 - 06/04/12 12:38 PM Re: Prescribed Burns [Re: Kent]
cfrac Offline
addict

Registered: 04/26/08
Posts: 462
Originally Posted By: Kent
FYI, I never post as AG/MPNA.

Edited to add: I think prescribed burns are a good idea.


If so, I apologize Kent. So, either there are multiple people posting under the AG/MPNA or someone goes through some major writing style changes as well as mood swings.

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#65223 - 06/04/12 01:23 PM Re: Prescribed Burns [Re: cfrac]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards

No worries Chris.

I tried to PM you but it says I'm on your ignore user list.

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