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#64760 - 05/08/12 08:50 PM Re: Son of easy o rap [Re: Rickster]
Coppertone Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/17/00
Posts: 1054
Loc: Newtown, CT
Originally Posted By: Rickster
Originally Posted By: chip
For argument's sake, one could attach a laminate card to the anchors on SOEO to let users know they need at least a 70m rope to rappel to the ground from there and to otherwise stop at the ledge and use the bolts for the bottom section.

Better yet, a stamped metal disc linked to the anchor, labeled with the correct rope length. Weather and wear proof. Possibly include the installation date, and initials of the installer.

And even better why don't we climb the route for them, place all their gear and rap off for them so they don't have to do anything at all or have any responsibility.

#64765 - 05/08/12 11:43 PM Re: Son of easy o rap [Re: Coppertone]
TerrieM Online   content

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 419
Loc: Gunks in Summer, Southwest in ...
I think the Preserve should hire English butlers to stand at the base, dust the dirt off the climbers shoes before they climb, and say(cheerfully) "Pip pip. cheerio!" as they head off. They wouldn't mention the manky anchor, or suggest a rope length, because well - that just wouldn't be the British way.

#64766 - 05/08/12 11:57 PM Re: Son of easy o rap [Re: TerrieM]
fear Offline

Registered: 06/27/03
Posts: 221
Loc: New England
English-only Butlers might be considered racist. You're going to need the full spectrum. Or was that speculum... I digress.

I have seen those little stamped metal disks on the Flatirons in Colorado. Generally on the most popular routes with blind raps. Can't hurt in the Gunks I guess if there's a particular tricky spot although it's not as if there are many 7 pitch full-length crazy complicated raps anywhere in the Gunks...

#64802 - 05/11/12 09:37 PM Re: Son of easy o rap [Re: climbingbetty]
wombat Offline

Registered: 05/27/08
Posts: 147
Loc: gardiner

Build an anchor where the fixed one is to mitigate your concerns on the crux. Then follow one of the many suggestions of how to do P1 and the rap.

I think a hip belay works well for the top bit and keeps your rope up off the rocks.

#64917 - 05/18/12 04:03 PM Re: Son of easy o rap [Re: wombat]
mr.tastycakes Offline

Registered: 12/07/08
Posts: 25
Wow. I realize I'm a bit late to this discussion but I want to enter a firm "NO" vote for bolted anchors on SOEO. I truly can't believe that I'm hearing people advocate making this 2-pitch classic easier to top-rope. That area of the cliff is a goddamn travesty for the Gunks already, supposedly an area with a strict trad climbing ethic. There are bolted anchors all along the ledge with many gear-anchor opportunities (i.e. City Lights and Frog's Head). Guides and other inconsiderate parties gang top-rope those climbs all day, often just the first's awful.

Also, I consider the easy upper face on SOEO a joy to climb. It's easy, exposed climbing with great rock and gorgeous views of the Hudson Valley. After the more difficult climbing below, it's a reward. Soak up the sun, take in the view, and run it out to the top of the cliff. Having a mid-climb anchor to lower-off right after the difficult climbing is sport climbing.

I'm not some hardcore traddie that shuns all bolts, even at the Gunks. Arrow? Fine. Sente? Fine. Yellow wall? Fine. Every time I see the smashed bolts on Clairvoyance, I'm a little disgusted that this gorgeous route has been marred (even though it's beyond my abilities). I just hate this idea in every way.

#65007 - 05/25/12 07:22 PM Re: Son of easy o rap [Re: mr.tastycakes]
fallenglass Offline

Registered: 08/01/03
Posts: 276
Loc: cornwall
I agree with Mr. Tastycakes.

#65148 - 06/02/12 04:29 AM Re: Son of easy o rap [Re: fallenglass]
jhurwitz Offline

Registered: 05/04/12
Posts: 14
Loc: Stone Ridge, NY
Alright guys, I was at the SOEO anchor, again, today and took a close look at it. Here are my thoughts: A very nice and careful leader and follower climbed past me as i was at the anchor. As careful as they were, they still dropped some stones from the top and they very much tried not to. That said, i still think a rappel anchor is the smartest way.

There are 3 pins, 2 cams with triggers clipped, 2 dead tricam heads and 1 dead cam head (the old rotting purple junior on the left) with a poorly tied webbing and 2 hollow aluminum rap rings.

I like the idea of the rap rings as they can't be toproped. What I'd like to do is clean all of the old junk and replace the 2 pins on the left. The one on the right is pretty new and solid. When all is said and done, I think a 3 piton anchor with 3 quicklinks, new cord and rap rings would work. I'd also like to remove the clipped cams as they will just end up as junk like the old .5 on the left. The challenge is removing the old mank. I'm assuming I can carefully drill some small holes in the tricams and cams and collapse them. The bigger challenge might be removing the pin on the far left as it's REALLY in there. Does anybody here have a lot of experience removing these old relics without breaking them and leaving a useless placement? If so, I'd also be interested in your assistance replacing the pins on Classic. It's time!

I could really use some assistance on this endeavor. Though I've banged in and out a few pins over the years, I think that this one may require a master's touch.

Thoughts? Concerns? Assistance?


#65150 - 06/02/12 11:11 AM Re: Son of easy o rap [Re: jhurwitz]
Rickster Offline
old hand

Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Orange Cty, NY
Your plan seems sound.

But, to what end?

I understand some folks regularly use this as a rappel anchor (I have), but too often one sees it being used for top roping. If this is to beef up an anchor for top roping SOEO? Than I'd say no. If all the mank were removed, pins and all, would any leader be able to establish a sound anchor without pins? If so, I'd suggest cleaning it all out and not replacing the hardware.

Eitherway, thank you for your efforts. One way or the other, I'm sure it will be far safer than it is now.

#65157 - 06/02/12 02:24 PM Re: Son of easy o rap [Re: Rickster]
worthrussell Offline

Registered: 04/11/10
Posts: 90
Loc: NY, Brooklyn
jason great idea! do it. Some people will probably complain but the complainers will use it just as much, probably more, than you or I. Its a solid compromise.

Edited by worthrussell (06/02/12 02:25 PM)

#65159 - 06/02/12 04:05 PM Re: Son of easy o rap [Re: jhurwitz]
retroscree Offline

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 397
Originally Posted By: jhurwitz
If so, I'd also be interested in your assistance replacing the pins on Classic. It's time!

Remember that most of those old pins on Classic are soft iron. It will be difficult to remove them without breakage. This was done intentionally so that they both conform to the crack and are more difficult to remove.

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