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#59792 - 08/25/11 02:32 AM Re: Shawangunk Anchors - Wish Lists and Updates [Re: Julie]
rg@ofmc Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/25/99
Posts: 2468
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
Not sure about the pitch counts in (b) (and sorry you can't go up there and check for yourself just yet). I suspect you mean Minty P3 and Snooky's P2. The tree at the top of what I would call either P1 or P2 of Snooky's (depending on whether or not you belay at the bolts) has been inadequate for a while, and I think most people who do not go all the way to the top are walking over to the tree at the top of Tipsy Trees, which was ok earlier this season but which will eventually be killed by climber-induced soil compaction and erosion, as so many Trapps trees have been.

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#59798 - 08/25/11 12:57 PM Re: Shawangunk Anchors - Wish Lists and Updates [Re: Julie]
KathyS Offline
member

Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 196
Loc: NY, USA
Originally Posted By: Julie
Hey folks, two questions on anchors that I'm unable to verify:

a) Criss Cross Direct. A new report says the anchor there is now "fine", but Dave (Luc.) had previously reported it as "now only a couple of nuts all facing for a leftward pull and "equalized" with a cold shut. Pitons and some of the nuts are gone.". Can someone verify that it's improved from this state, & specify the improvements? New hardware?

b) Snooky's (yes, it's killing me to have to ask!) - "Minty P2 and Snooky's Return P3 trees are dead and webbing and rings are no longer on them.". Can anyone verify this, or the current state of things up there?

Tx.


If memory serves, last time I was up Minty, there was barely a trace of the tree that used to be there.

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#59977 - 09/06/11 12:48 AM Re: Shawangunk Anchors - Wish Lists and Updates [Re: KathyS]
Lucander Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 226
Loc: Stone Ridge, NY
Silly Chimney Rappel line update: old tight old webbing (choking tree?), it's been replaced with new material.

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#59978 - 09/06/11 01:26 AM Re: Shawangunk Anchors - Wish Lists and Updates [Re: Lucander]
retroscree Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 397
Originally Posted By: Lucander
Silly Chimney Rappel line update: old tight old webbing (choking tree?), it's been replaced with new material.

Silly Chimney needs a rap anchor?? WTF????? Aren't you guys supposed to be climbers? There are descents in the Tetons, Yosemite, and all over the world that are far more hairball than SC.

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#59979 - 09/06/11 02:07 AM Re: Shawangunk Anchors - Wish Lists and Updates [Re: retroscree]
rg@ofmc Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/25/99
Posts: 2468
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
True. Generations of climbers soloed down Silly Chimney. But solidity on easy ground, nowadays the mark of someone with mountaineering experience, is no longer a given for all climbers.

Many now learn to climb hard without ever climbing easy, and many never actually climb down anything, and so there is now a significant group with no experience in unroped scrambling or unprotected 4th class leading.

Rappelling looks safer to these folks, and maybe it is, in spite of all the accidents involving bad anchors and uneven ropes that have replaced years of almost entirely incident-free soloing.

It doesn't seem possible that unroped downclimbing could really be safer than rappelling. Perhaps the distinction is that the unroped climber attends fully to the task at hand, whereas the rappeller, engaged in an activity that is as unforgiving as soloing, but has become routine and apparently trivial, is more likely to have a momentary lapse of attention.

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#59983 - 09/06/11 12:35 PM Re: Shawangunk Anchors - Wish Lists and Updates [Re: rg@ofmc]
Lucander Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 226
Loc: Stone Ridge, NY
For what it's worth, there was moldy webbing on Silly Chimney when I started climbing at the Gunks in 2005. I'm no forensics expert, but I'd bet that this rap line has been there all millennium. It's a nice way to get to the ground in one rappel from Double Crack, Airy Aria, Bonnie's Roof, and Ursula.

DL

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#59995 - 09/06/11 04:09 PM Re: Shawangunk Anchors - Wish Lists and Updates [Re: Lucander]
retroscree Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 397
Originally Posted By: Lucander
For what it's worth, there was moldy webbing on Silly Chimney when I started climbing at the Gunks in 2005. I'm no forensics expert, but I'd bet that this rap line has been there all millennium. It's a nice way to get to the ground in one rappel descend without bothering with any rappelling from Double Crack, Airy Aria, Bonnie's Roof, and Ursula.

There was no anchor there in the 70's, 80's or 90's. And I fixed your quote for you.

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#59998 - 09/06/11 04:47 PM Re: Shawangunk Anchors - Wish Lists and Updates [Re: retroscree]
Lucander Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 226
Loc: Stone Ridge, NY
Thanks for correcting me, Retro. You might be interested in knowing about a really neat device called the ATC. It makes rappelling without a thick wool coat that the dulfersitz body rap necessitated quite pleasant. Check out a newer version of this apparatus at <http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en-us/shop/climb/belay-rappel/atc-belay-rappel-device>

DL

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#60004 - 09/06/11 06:44 PM Re: Shawangunk Anchors - Wish Lists and Updates [Re: Lucander]
tradjunkie Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 04/19/04
Posts: 365
Even newer than the ATC is the 2004 guidebook, which gives 3 stars to a 5.5 nearby and 2 stars to a 5.6 nearby. This was not the case for the guidebooks in the 70s, 80s, and 90s.

I can not place the timing of the trend from walking off to rapping off but I imagine it coincided roughly with the placement of bolted rap anchors circa 2000, which accelerated the loss of downclimbing skills among new climbers, as well as shifting the trend for those uncomfortable downsoloing with 150' of air from using walkoffs (down Roger's) to raps, and from walking 3 minutes to a rap (High E) to looking for a rap within 50 yards.

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#60323 - 09/21/11 03:36 AM Re: Shawangunk Anchors - Wish Lists and Updates [Re: tradjunkie]
jakedatc Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/18/06
Posts: 241
Added a quicklink to the fixed nut on Bonnies P1 anchor so it could be used with the thread. The thread needs some newer webbing i think.

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