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#65494 - 06/17/12 08:24 PM "The Wall" at Mokuleia CLOSED
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
MOKULEIA, Hawaii - A 12-year-old girl's life-threatening injuries has spurred the state into action.
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The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#65495 - 06/18/12 01:22 PM Re: "The Wall" at Mokuleia CLOSED [Re: Advocacy group]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1494
Loc: New Jersey
I believe that the state is trying to be responsible. And this kind of responsibility happens when the rock-climbing community themselves become irresponsible. The rock-climbing community should be policing itself and dealing with people or groups who are unsafe. Am I my brothers keeper? Yes!

How unsafe? Foremost children have no business in a hardhat area. How can you put a helmet on a minor and put them in an area where there are potentially falling rocks, or above other people when they could dislodge loose rocks?

I would suggest at this point if clubs where formed in MOKULEIA, Hawaii that carried insurance and were responsible that should solve the problem. But not to bring minors up to the cliff to make a profit. The state should be focusing on what it allows minors to do, not on rock-climbing. I am sure at one time when autos where first invented minors used to drive cars here and there. And when there is the inevitable accident the fault should lie with the person that put them behind the wheel and the fact that people allowed children to drive. Banning rock-climbing is the same as banning driving an automobile or banning surfing or banning the use of firearms or banning sex. To climb means there are grave responsibilities and grave decisions that can effect people permanently, decisions that only adults should be allowed to make.

There may be some things children can do, but it should be limited. Take them to Great Adventure.



Edited by donald perry (06/18/12 01:49 PM)
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The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#65497 - 06/18/12 02:41 PM Re: "The Wall" at Mokuleia CLOSED [Re: donald perry]
Rickster Online   content
old hand

Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 816
Loc: Orange Cty, NY
Originally Posted By: donald perry
... Foremost children have no business in a hardhat area. How can you put a helmet on a minor and put them in an area where there are potentially falling rocks, or above other people when they could dislodge loose rocks?

...To climb means there are grave responsibilities and grave decisions that can effect people permanently, decisions that only adults should be allowed to make.

There may be some things children can do, but it should be limited. Take them to Great Adventure.



That being said, didn't you take your son Josh up onto El Cap's Zodiac when he was 13 as you posted last season? How old were your children when you took them for their very first climbs? crazy

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#65499 - 06/18/12 03:01 PM Re: "The Wall" at Mokuleia CLOSED [Re: Rickster]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1494
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Rickster
Originally Posted By: donald perry
... Foremost children have no business in a hardhat area. How can you put a helmet on a minor and put them in an area where there are potentially falling rocks, or above other people when they could dislodge loose rocks?

...To climb means there are grave responsibilities and grave decisions that can effect people permanently, decisions that only adults should be allowed to make.

There may be some things children can do, but it should be limited. Take them to Great Adventure.



That being said, didn't you take your son Josh up onto El Cap's Zodiac when he was 13 as you posted last season? How old were your children when you took them for their very first climbs? crazy


I stand behind what I said. I think it is mistake to take minors rock-climbing, I cannot say anything more or less.

However if there is a lot of control where there would be less danger as in a climbing gym or at Great Adventure that makes a difference. If you have two people with 30 years experience on an overhanging wall where loose rocks are not an issue that makes a difference.

I stand behind what I said, it is not advisable, I would not admit it is wise to take minors rockclimbing. You can have some close calls. What do you think Rickster? Is it safe to take minors or groups of minors rockclimbing?


Edited by donald perry (06/18/12 03:04 PM)
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#65500 - 06/18/12 03:17 PM Re: "The Wall" at Mokuleia CLOSED [Re: donald perry]
oenophore Online   confused
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 5935
Loc: 212 land
In the midst of this controversy, no one has posted anything about what happened at Mokuleia.
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#65501 - 06/18/12 03:23 PM Re: "The Wall" at Mokuleia CLOSED [Re: oenophore]
Mike Rawdon Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/29/99
Posts: 4269
Loc: Poughkeepsie
Originally Posted By: oenophore
In the midst of this controversy, no one has posted anything about what happened at Mokuleia.


No doubt because it affects all of us so severely and directly. wink

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#65502 - 06/18/12 03:25 PM Re: "The Wall" at Mokuleia CLOSED [Re: oenophore]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
Originally Posted By: oenophore
In the midst of this controversy, no one has posted anything about what happened at Mokuleia.


the article did not post due to this site being buggy. Sorry.

Mpna
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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#65503 - 06/18/12 03:36 PM Re: "The Wall" at Mokuleia CLOSED [Re: donald perry]
ianmanger Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 04/25/03
Posts: 319
Originally Posted By: donald perry
...

I stand behind what I said, it is not advisable, I would not admit it is wise to take minors rockclimbing. You can have some close calls. What do you think Rickster? Is it safe to take minors or groups of minors rockclimbing?

Yeah, you're missing the point here, comme toujours. You should be asking yourself this question. Oh, wait, you qualified it. As long as you have 30 years of experience and on an overhanging wall etc..Now, would that be 30 calendar years, or the '30 years of going to the crag everyday' thing that you keep droning on about?

I happen to think that you're largely correct, but as usual you paint with a big broad brush and then realize you need something a little finer. Or don't, because your own rules don't apply to you. Which is it?

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#65504 - 06/18/12 04:16 PM Re: "The Wall" at Mokuleia CLOSED [Re: oenophore]
retroscree Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 397
Originally Posted By: oenophore
In the midst of this controversy, no one has posted anything about what happened at Mokuleia.

AG is once again being vague and using implication to make a supposed point, without citing a source. If you Google:
MOKULEIA, Hawaii - A 12-year-old girl's life-threatening injuries has spurred the state into action.
...you find several articles.

Basically, a 12 yr old girl was part of a scout troop getting a rock climbing orientation at the base of the wall and was hit by a falling rock. She was not yet wearing her helmet.

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#65505 - 06/18/12 04:25 PM Re: "The Wall" at Mokuleia CLOSED [Re: retroscree]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
Originally Posted By: retroscree
Originally Posted By: oenophore
In the midst of this controversy, no one has posted anything about what happened at Mokuleia.

AG is once again being vague and using implication to make a supposed point, without citing a source. If you Google:
MOKULEIA, Hawaii - A 12-year-old girl's life-threatening injuries has spurred the state into action.
...you find several articles.

Basically, a 12 yr old girl was part of a scout troop getting a rock climbing orientation at the base of the wall and was hit by a falling rock. She was not yet wearing her helmet.




Basically a bug error clipped the article which was copied and pasted..... But hey if it caused RetroMarcC to short circuit then all is good. You can find more info on RC.

Thanks, MPNA
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

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