Shout Box

Who's Online
0 registered (), 11 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#65506 - 06/18/12 04:27 PM Re: "The Wall" at Mokuleia CLOSED [Re: Advocacy group]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
In any event the wall has been closed and is now off limits.
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

Top
#65507 - 06/18/12 07:14 PM Re: "The Wall" at Mokuleia CLOSED [Re: retroscree]
crimpy Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 07/02/11
Posts: 331
Loc: Wawarsing
looks what happens when you feed the troll.

Top
#65508 - 06/18/12 07:29 PM Re: "The Wall" at Mokuleia CLOSED [Re: Advocacy group]
oenophore Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 5979
Loc: 212 land
Here's a link from a Honolulu TV broadcaster.
_________________________

Top
#65510 - 06/18/12 08:18 PM Re: "The Wall" at Mokuleia CLOSED [Re: oenophore]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
Thanks oenophore!
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

Top
#65513 - 06/19/12 12:55 AM Re: "The Wall" at Mokuleia CLOSED [Re: crimpy]
retroscree Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 397
Originally Posted By: crimpy
looks what happens when you feed the troll.

He does seem to go hypertensive when presented with facts or direct questions. Still hasn't said anything of substance about the Cannan Road car ticketing and towing, despite being asked repeatedly by others. He's also delusional enough to think that all the page views of his other thread are actually humans who give a crap about his little battle with the evil Preserve instead of the search engine, ad farms, and other robots they actually are.

Top
#65515 - 06/19/12 02:01 AM Re: "The Wall" at Mokuleia CLOSED [Re: ianmanger]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey

No, my own rules apply to me too; they apply to me as standing corrected. I guess in a way you could be asking would I do it again. And I suppose I would say yes. The risk was very limited. But does this mean that my rule does not apply to me because I break it?, that it is not foolish and dangerous for me to take minors rock-climbing? That's the point. You tell me, what do you think?

However, I do think you can make yourself out to be less stupid and less dangerous when you decide to get your children on a rope more than 3' off the ground. How do you make yourself to be anything other than only less stupid and a less irresponsible? God forbid, if something happens, do you think there is anything you can say in your defense? Isn't that the point? What could you say?, nothing.

Is it possible I would have taken my son up to that cliff and a rock would land on his head in Mokuleia today? Probably not very likely. Why? First of all, I would never let a guide take him, as was the case in Mokuleia. Second, I would not let him stand under other people. Third, he would have a helmet on so I would have less to worry about, as he always did have a helmet. Fourth, I would have gone up to the top and removed all the loose rock first while someone else was on the ground with a walkie-talkie to make sure it is safe. That's what we did at Millbrook. Fifth, I hate crowds. Sixth, I would not want my son falling on cliffs, it would be better for him and me that he was spending most of his time falling on video games, and that is just what happened, for the most part. Now he is addicted to video games. He spent a lot of time on Call Of Duty.
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

Top
#65516 - 06/19/12 02:05 AM Re: "The Wall" at Mokuleia CLOSED [Re: retroscree]
Advocacy group Offline
addict

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 653
Loc: New Paltz,Marbletown,Gardiner,...
Originally Posted By: retroscree
Originally Posted By: crimpy
looks what happens when you feed the troll.

He does seem to go hypertensive when presented with facts or direct questions. Still hasn't said anything of substance about the Cannan Road car ticketing and towing, despite being asked repeatedly by others. He's also delusional enough to think that all the page views of his other thread are actually humans who give a crap about his little battle with the evil Preserve instead of the search engine, ad farms, and other robots they actually are.



It's Canaan...... must be tough to know all the roads hailing from Sandy Utah eh RetromarcC? Besides, what do you want a thesis on the parking situation around the preserve? Seems pretty simple really.......

MPNA
_________________________
The MPNA is an advocacy group for adjacent neighbors of the Mohonk Preserve. In the event of a dispute with the Mohonk Preserve, we can offer assistance in obtaining experts in the following areas; Surveying, Lawyers, Title, expert witnesses, ancient document research, and Maps.

Top
#65519 - 06/19/12 02:40 AM Re: "The Wall" at Mokuleia CLOSED [Re: Advocacy group]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
I think if I was to think about running around chopping bolts somewhere undercover I would think to chopping arguments instead, otherwise what's the point? People would keep drilling them just as fast as you chop bolts. You have to change people's minds, chopping bolts would not do that. You have to get the people to agree with you. Simply chopping bolts in a place where it is accepted does not accomplish anything.

BTW, I do not think AG did that. She does not seem like the type.


Edited by donald perry (06/19/12 02:43 AM)
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

Top
#65520 - 06/19/12 03:00 AM Re: "The Wall" at Mokuleia CLOSED [Re: donald perry]
Mark Heyman Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 1123
Loc: South Jersey (Pinelands)
There is no logical reason to close a crag because someone gets hurt xcept due to liablty issues on private proterty. Mokuleia is on State Land? Hawaii isn't about to ban surfing because poeple (many people) get hurt, and all across America we let (encourage) youth to do "dangerous" things with helmets. Riding bicycles and foot ball might start the list.

So IMHO there is no good reason to disallow climbing at Mokuleia - which has nothig to do with what happen there.

Top
#65521 - 06/19/12 12:47 PM Re: "The Wall" at Mokuleia CLOSED [Re: Mark Heyman]
Rickster Offline
old hand

Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 853
Loc: Orange Cty, NY
After reading a few of the online reports regarding the accident at Mokuleia, a few thoughts.

Unlike the remainder of the group, the victim had not yet put her helmet on as they approached the crag, or possibly had removed it. The group was still walking along the approach trail at the time of the accident.

The rock's size estimate and distance of travel vary from one report to another. A 25 lb rock fell 20 ft., or a 30 lb rock fell >50 ft.

Such a rock fall impact would have far exceeded the design parameters of most rock climbing helmets.

The camp group was lead by counselors and did not have the proper permit.

There is a local commercial guide service that works that crag, but there is no record of them having ever had the appropriate permits either. Apparently, ranger inforcement of the permit policy has been weak.

As for closing the park to climbing, maybe it's a knee jerk reaction, but rock climbing is a relatively new activity in Hawaii, and isn't considered in the park's master plan.

Now as the result of a tragic accident, they're forced to review the activity and hopefully for the local climbing community, make positive and appropriate adjustments to their master plan.

Best wishes to the 12 year old victim, for a full recovery and hopes that this event doesn't prompt the permanent closure of the state's most popular climbing venue.

Top
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >


Moderator:  andrew, Mike Rawdon 
Sponsored