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#65160 - 06/02/12 04:09 PM Re: Son of easy o rap [Re: worthrussell]
rg@ofmc Online   content

Registered: 12/25/99
Posts: 2472
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
I think it sounds like a reasonable plan, one that is within Preserve guidelines for you to do on your own without permission from anyone else anyway.

Any anchor there will increasingly be used to tie up the climb for toproping, either by using double ropes or as 70m ropes become more popular. I suspect that putting that much rope in a belay system will sooner or later lead to a broken ankle or maybe even an injured back when the follower falls off low down and hits the ground with rope stretch (this has already happened on Double Crack), but I have never set up any kind of top rope there myself so do not know what the rope stretch situation is really like.

I mention this because there is a practically endless cycle of problems once climbers stop protecting themselves and start down the road of saving others from poor technique, ignorance, and bad decisions.

I'd rather see no anchor there at all, together with some education about diagonaling over to the selection of bolts on the Frogshead wall, an option that avoids going direct to the top and dropping stuff (which shouldn't happen, but it is obvious that there are too many people who are either unwilling or, more likely, unable to set up the right type of belay and maintain enough focus to keep from rolling stuff over the edge.) I'm also realistic enough to know that a new anchor is likely appear there anyway if the current one is cleaned, so that keeping that spot clean would probably require an ongoing effort.

I'd be willing to help with anchor removal, but in still in the midst of a long rehab period after a reconstructed ACL operation, with the Fall as perhaps my earliest return to outdoor climbing. As for a "master's touch" in removing old mank, I'm not sure there is such a thing. Back in the day when we used pitons on a daily basis, we tested and clipped old mank and removed new chromemolly. The most sophisticated technique we had was the funkness device---if that breaks the eye, the old masters would be up the same creek as everyone else.

It seems plausible to me that if drilling and "collapsing" is an option for the tricams, then the same technique could be used on old angle pitons whose eye had broken. (Smaller thinner blade pitons such as the one in classic pose a more challenging problem.) What is needed here is a different type of master, namely someone with metalworking knowledge and tools. (What can you do with an acetylene torch?)

#65161 - 06/02/12 04:20 PM Re: Son of easy o rap [Re: rg@ofmc]
retroscree Offline

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 397
Originally Posted By: rg@ofmc
(What can you do with an acetylene torch?)

Shatter the surrounding rock? Convert old mank into blobs of melted metal?

#65168 - 06/02/12 06:33 PM Re: Son of easy o rap [Re: retroscree]
Mike Rawdon Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/29/99
Posts: 4276
Loc: Poughkeepsie
I am skeptical that a few small holes will allow the Tricam to collapse. Climbing alloys are generally very hard. I think a cordless Sawzall with a long metal-cutting blade will be required.

#65169 - 06/02/12 06:58 PM Re: Son of easy o rap [Re: rg@ofmc]
schwortz Offline

Registered: 09/10/03
Posts: 308
i say chop and clean the whole mess. dont go backwards.

chop chop!

#65175 - 06/02/12 10:19 PM Re: Son of easy o rap [Re: schwortz]
jhurwitz Offline

Registered: 05/04/12
Posts: 14
Loc: Stone Ridge, NY
Thanks for all of the input! Okay, my plan is to remove as much of the mank as possible and leave the space with 3 solid pitons with quicklinks equalized with a double hollow aluminum rap ring powerpoint so as to discourage toproping the anchor directly.

I cold certainly use some assistance on pin removal. Not my first go around on pin removal, though it is a bit of a lost art. RG, I understand you're not in shape for this right now, and I appreciate your willingness to assist if you were!

Anybody got a cordless sawzall I could borrow? I'm quite accurate with power tools. I've a strong background in jewelry and a fairly strong background in construction, etc... I WON'T DESTROY IT! wink

My wall gear (hammer and funkness and some of my iron) is traveling across country with a couple of friends right now and could use the loan of any other equipment as well to complete this task sooner than later. Anyone?

Schwortz - I don't see the point in removing an anchor that will be replaced within a week or two. I'd rather just get it right now and assist with maintenance over the years to come. I should have replaced many of these pins years ago, but didn't. I'm sorry about that!


Edited by jhurwitz (06/02/12 10:20 PM)

#65176 - 06/02/12 11:02 PM Re: Son of easy o rap [Re: retroscree]
Rickster Online   content
old hand

Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 853
Loc: Orange Cty, NY
Sounds like this is done deal. Though if one goes back to the first post and discards all the sarcastic replies, and other OT posts. The majority of the remaining posts lean more towards chopping the old pins and tat and not replacing.

#65177 - 06/02/12 11:19 PM Re: Son of easy o rap [Re: Rickster]
Dana Online   content

Registered: 07/13/00
Posts: 619
You have explained your set-up and said it would discourage people from toproping. Is it realistic to expect that? Won't it be easy for people to find a way to set up TRs? Also, I think it would be good idea to get more of a feeling from the community before proceeding. As a previous poster noted, the general sentiment on seems to be against replacement.

#65178 - 06/02/12 11:21 PM Re: Son of easy o rap [Re: Rickster]
jakedatc Offline

Registered: 10/18/06
Posts: 241
Don't use shitty rap rings. unfortunately not everyone knows the difference. if you are going to make a new anchor, make it solid. If not then get rid of it all and leave it empty.

edit: i agree with Dana. having a new anchor there will have people keep TRing it.

also from earlier, i belayed from that anchor and my 2nd fell and reached the ground on stretch. i'm not sure how far up he was to do that but it's definitely something to consider.

Edited by jakedatc (06/02/12 11:27 PM)

#65182 - 06/03/12 01:48 AM Re: Son of easy o rap [Re: rg@ofmc]
wivanov Online   content

Registered: 05/01/12
Posts: 30
Loc: CT
Originally Posted By: rg@ofmc
Various iterations of that anchor have been there for at least fifty years; the idea that its presence had anything to do with lowering off is absurd. People belayed there because ropes used to be 120 feet and because communication with the second is very difficult if you go all the way to the top. Although the stance is now primarily used by climbers on Son of Easy O, it originally served parties on Easy O primarily.

Isn't it still used by parties on Easy O?

Originally Posted By: jhurwitz
Okay, my plan is to remove as much of the mank as possible and leave the space with 3 solid pitons with quicklinks equalized with a double hollow aluminum rap ring powerpoint so as to discourage toproping the anchor directly.

This sounds like a reasonable plan - except for the hollow rap rings, it has my vote. And I have no intention of TR Son of Easy O.

If there has been some iteration of that anchor there for at least fifty years and it is currently now all mank, why is it a "badthing" to clean up the mank and replace it with 3 good pins? Fifty years seems long enough to set a precedent. The anchor in it's current form is an eyesore, if not a hazard.

#65195 - 06/03/12 10:05 PM Re: Son of easy o rap [Re: wivanov]
jhurwitz Offline

Registered: 05/04/12
Posts: 14
Loc: Stone Ridge, NY
I hear ya guys/gals. Also spoke with some friends regarding it. Who am I to put in hollow aluminum to assist with discouraging TRing. I'll make it bomb-proof! I am considering using all steel cable and quicklinks. Otherwise, I'd use some sort of nylon and just keep replacing every year.

My concerns with steel cable is possible fraying and the inability of many climbers to recognize it as safe. Not everybody can identify crosby clamps setup properly and will feel the need to add a sling to make it "safe" to them.



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