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#67241 - 01/17/13 01:32 AM Re: Do you have what it takes to live ...? [Re: RangerRob]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1527
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: RangerRob
Donald unless you're on a multi day alpine ice route, the weather doesn't that fast to turn an otherwise good route into a river


I do not belive that is true. What about the Eiger? I know that these days people can do it in a few hours. But suppose you were off to do it in a few days? Arn't there accounts of these kind of things happening there?


Edited by donald perry (01/17/13 01:34 AM)
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#67242 - 01/17/13 01:35 AM Re: Do you have what it takes to live ...? [Re: retroscree]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1527
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: retroscree
O
Originally Posted By: donald perry
Yes, but what if the climb was long and the weather changed and going down would be worse than going up? What would you do then?

Since you're now in totally hypothetical-land, I'd have tapped my communicator and had Scotty beam me up.


Why? Don't you ice climb?
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#67243 - 01/17/13 01:39 AM Re: Do you have what it takes to live ...? [Re: chip]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1527
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: chip
Warm ice is always alluring because it is so easy to get everything to stick, until the ice falls down. You are certainly not the first to mis-judge how soon it was coming down. Thankfully, you did not join some others in dying over making a poor choice. Accepting the rope was the only realistic option once you were in that situation and a "more experienced" climber would have fared no better given the conditions you found. The water chute you were in did not appear to lend itself to dry tooling or anything other than water/ice sliding once the ice stopped being climbable.


What about prying off the ice first?, it would not take much. And ... you can see some horizontal edges even in the video.
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#67247 - 01/17/13 02:02 AM Re: Do you have what it takes to live ...? [Re: RangerRob]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1527
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: RangerRob
Donald unless you're on a multi day alpine ice route, the weather doesn't that fast to turn an otherwise good route into a river


True, but then like I said before, lets suppose we are talking about that.

"There was one problem, however. The brilliantly sunny weather melted much of the ice that held the upper rocks in place, with the result that rockfall was heaver that usual." Eiger: Wall of Death by Arthur Roth Page 132.
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

Top
#67248 - 01/17/13 02:26 AM Re: Do you have what it takes to live ...? [Re: donald perry]
Mike Rawdon Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/29/99
Posts: 4275
Loc: Poughkeepsie
Originally Posted By: donald perry

There is no plagiarism involved with what I wrote, the words are all my own. As for the video[s], they do not belong to me, they are all over the internet with no one taking credit for them. I have nothing whatsoever to do with it in any way shape or form, other than a link. Presently I am making hypothetical arguments about the scenario.



OK, now I'm really confused. This is all "hypothetical"?

Sounds like OJ Simpson's book...

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#67249 - 01/17/13 03:19 AM Re: Do you have what it takes to live ...? [Re: Mike Rawdon]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1527
Loc: New Jersey
Well, I was talking about what we are talking about now, right now. However if you want to take it further you can do that too. But like I said before, my post is not about me, it is about a question. Do you have an answer?
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

Top
#67251 - 01/17/13 02:45 PM Re: Do you have what it takes to live ...? [Re: donald perry]
Rickster Offline
old hand

Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 845
Loc: Orange Cty, NY
What would I have done? I'd have been off the route before the sun hit the face. It worked for the gracious folks that lowered you the rope.

However, from what we see in the vid, it looks as if you were attempting to get to top by the shortest route, via that patch of thin ice. I appears to me as if the ice to climbers right was a not as lean, a quick step right and up, you'd have made it clean. This looks to be exactly what you did once on top rope. Sometimes the shortest route isn't the direct one.

Otherwise, cleaning the loose, thin ice to clean rock, would have been my best move, given that it would not endanger my belayer, or others below.

Salvation from such situations can come in many forms. 25+ years ago, while walking along the base of the Trapps, I heard a climber named Don Hamilton recite a short prayer as he was leading up on tenuous pro.

"Oh Lord, please put Joel Ponti in my place."

In such situations, one must do , what one must do.

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#67253 - 01/17/13 03:31 PM Re: Do you have what it takes to live ...? [Re: donald perry]
AOR Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 08/27/04
Posts: 392
Originally Posted By: donald perry
This climber is not me. But hypothetically speaking, it were you, would you have taken the rope without reserve? or tried to work out a solution first for a period of time? I think much of went wrong here had to do with haste, and taking the rope so quickly only came naturally as what had been the from the very beginning. If there was no earnest need to get to the top immediately none of this would have happened in the first place. I suppose likewise one could always think about waiting till the sun set and the ice refreeze again.


Donald, now I'm REALLY confused. First you said you were the climber in the video and now (above) you say you are not. Are you, or are you NOT the climber in the video?
Please explain and/or clarify...

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#67255 - 01/17/13 04:02 PM Re: Do you have what it takes to live ...? [Re: donald perry]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1527
Loc: New Jersey
This climber is not me. But hypothetically speaking, if it were you, would you have taken the rope without reserve? or tried to work out a solution for a period of time … as long as possible?

Over and over again I read about all that has to do with such a happy ending to such a desperate situation as this, with ice! But I think all of went wrong, all of it here has to do with haste. And taking the rope so quickly as only came naturally to what had been from the very beginning was just another mistake determined by the errors governing the principles of the method used to ascend. Man's nature to search for quick easy and "safe" solutions. Which all, when taken together are not safe at all. In my mind, ultimately, this has to be just another error, no solution found and no solution attempted, and nothing gained. If there was no earnest need to get to the top immediately, then none of this would have happened in the first place. I suppose likewise one could always think about waiting till the sun set and the ice refreeze again where it is possible to hang on a dry tool.

Ultimately when you get down to the nifty gritty, I think climbing is not for the faint hearted or the week or for those who are looking for quick easy and safe solutions. It's a man's game, you can die or you can kill your partner, it is not safe. Good thing the belayer did not come off the top and the rope held, she was not even done with her anchors yet.

When you can't take the heat when the ice begins to melt, then it must only get worse. And this I think is the real problem, and that has everything with not taking or not taking the rope from above. What happened that day had nothing to do with climbing.
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

Top
#67256 - 01/17/13 04:10 PM Re: Do you have what it takes to live ...? [Re: donald perry]
Rickster Offline
old hand

Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 845
Loc: Orange Cty, NY
Don said..... "This climber is not me. But hypothetically speaking......."

Don please reread all of your posts in this thread. Identify all the sentences that you posted that indicate that you are the climber in question.
This thread has been an intentional farce from the very beginning, can you honestly say you have not been playing the troll? whistle


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