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#67437 - 02/20/13 10:53 PM Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY
TerrieM Offline
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Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 425
Loc: Gunks in Summer, Southwest in ...
As if the recent snows weren't enough, this ought to start a shitstorm....
http://www.dpmclimbing.com/climbing-videos/watch/hammered-and-chiseled

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#67438 - 02/20/13 10:56 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: TerrieM]
keith Offline
journeyman

Registered: 03/26/09
Posts: 70
Loc: The beach
Its Ivan Greene if you know him punch him in the dick with a RUSTY SCREWDRIVER!!!!!

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#67440 - 02/21/13 02:43 AM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: keith]
acdnyc Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 209
Loc: NYC/Kerhonkson
Wow. Way to bring it all down in so many ways. Couldn't even imagine doing something like that.
_________________________
jugs or mugs

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#67442 - 02/21/13 05:07 AM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: acdnyc]
worthrussell Offline
journeyman

Registered: 04/11/10
Posts: 90
Loc: NY, Brooklyn
Busted

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#67443 - 02/21/13 10:40 AM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: worthrussell]
oenophore Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 5979
Loc: 212 land
Theft of those stashed tools might be a proper penalty.
_________________________

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#67444 - 02/21/13 01:03 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: oenophore]
crimpy Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 07/02/11
Posts: 331
Loc: Wawarsing
never been the biggest fan, but feel awful that it has turned out this way after all he has invested as gunks pioneer. lets see what happens terrie.
most people think that the recent snow events were not enough.

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#67447 - 02/21/13 04:20 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: crimpy]
TerrieM Offline
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Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 425
Loc: Gunks in Summer, Southwest in ...
Off the subject, but I would like to see the major climbing-related companies choosing to sponsor boulderers who are dedicated to reduced impact and make it a part of the message they bring to those following.


So many people who don't come to climbing the old route(through mentorship)are into bouldering, and I see a real lack of land stewardship being put out in the media when it comes to covering bouldering.

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#67448 - 02/21/13 04:55 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: TerrieM]
GOclimb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 2361
Loc: Boston
Are you all sure it's Ivan? Anyone who really knows him and recognizes his face in the video?

GO

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#67449 - 02/21/13 05:03 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: GOclimb]
GOclimb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 2361
Loc: Boston
Also, a link to the actual article: http://www.dpmclimbing.com/articles/view/just-cleaning

GO

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#67454 - 02/21/13 09:49 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: TerrieM]
crimpy Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 07/02/11
Posts: 331
Loc: Wawarsing
Originally Posted By: TerrieM


So many people who don't come to climbing the old route(through mentorship)are into bouldering, and I see a real lack of land stewardship being put out in the media when it comes to covering bouldering.


bullshit

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#67455 - 02/21/13 10:25 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: crimpy]
TerrieM Offline
addict

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 425
Loc: Gunks in Summer, Southwest in ...
...that's my opinion. Seems to me that most of the new climbers I meet are bouldering. Also, I see quite a bit of rope climbers on board with Access Fund, making statements and such, but not so much in boudlering. Can't think of one boulderer who publicly espouses land stewardship and conservation, off the top of my head.

What is it you call BS?

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#67456 - 02/22/13 12:26 AM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: TerrieM]
Rickster Offline
old hand

Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 853
Loc: Orange Cty, NY
TM, two the very first boulderers in the Gunks, though not so active in bouldering today, have more than proven themselves as stewards of the land, and in conservation, messieurs Williams, and Goldstone among many others.

As I watch the bouldering crews amble by, I don't ask who the "mentor" is, but I would easily guess there's a top dog, sharing what he or she knows with the new folks.

What IG did in the video is reprehensible, no doubt about that, and I'm sure the vast majority of boulderers will be just as shocked and disgusted by it as are the rest of us. Let's hope that this video and the public response is a lesson to all and that in some way it influences future behavior for the better.

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#67457 - 02/22/13 03:00 AM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: Rickster]
TerrieM Offline
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Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 425
Loc: Gunks in Summer, Southwest in ...
True about Dick and Rich beings stewards - maybe the Access Fund or some big gear company SHOULD consider sponsoring them... After all, the best climber is the one having the most fun and all...

And, what OF the young ones coming up? What ARE their "mentors" teaching them? We had some pretty good boulderers disregard sensitive areas a few years ago, which resulted in an "area closed to bouldering" response.

I just think a company could do a lot of good by sponsoring some people who make it part of their program to educate against a "scorched earth" policy when developing areas working problems, and I don't see it happening. That's all

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#67458 - 02/22/13 03:16 AM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: GOclimb]
RobT Offline
stranger

Registered: 11/05/09
Posts: 17
Loc: Washington Heights
GO
if you still need convincing...the patch on the hat.
Look at his Facebook page. It's the same patch, over and over again.
The cat in the video going after the boulders like a mason is Ivan Green. How sad.

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#67461 - 02/22/13 12:07 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: RobT]
Rickster Offline
old hand

Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 853
Loc: Orange Cty, NY
The Edelrid disclaimer posted above says as much. No doubt at all.

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#67462 - 02/22/13 01:26 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: TerrieM]
crimpy Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 07/02/11
Posts: 331
Loc: Wawarsing
terrie have you seen this video series from the access fund?
http://vimeo.com/48602840 heres one to give you an idea what the bouldering community has been up to!

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#67463 - 02/22/13 02:28 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: crimpy]
crimpy Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 07/02/11
Posts: 331
Loc: Wawarsing
terrie your posts make you sound like an old lady shaking your stick at that devil music.heres one a bit closer to home http://vimeo.com/30174113
btw the boulder in the ivan video is not the gunks, its further south in rockland county i hear.supposedly people, friends etc have been on ivans ass for years about this.

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#67464 - 02/22/13 03:53 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: crimpy]
SethG Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 713
Loc: NYC
Used to be you could hear climbers coming with their cowbells, but now they all sneak up on you with their soft, quiet crash pads. I have had to cross to the other side of the carriage road many times when I've not liked the look of those teenage bouldery types. The beanies, the jeans.... what is the world coming to?
_________________________
It's true, I have a blog. http://climbandpunishment.blogspot.com/

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#67465 - 02/22/13 03:58 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: SethG]
SethG Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 713
Loc: NYC
Also, about Ivan in particular, I have seen him around the NYC gym scene for many years and I have always found him to be a very amusing, diverting presence. I'm sure he doesn't know me at all but he made an impression on me from the first. I was just beginning my climbing "career" when I saw him at Chelsea Piers. I thought in all seriousness that the Ben Stiller character Zoolander had come to life, and expected someone eventually to tell me that this was all a put-on. He was always, and I mean ALWAYS, at the gym with at least three beautiful women. And they could climb. I never saw them there except with Ivan but they would warm up on a 5.10.

Later at BKB I got more of a sense of his route-setting (really very good), and saw him teaching groups a few times. He was as far as I could tell an enthusiastic, effective teacher. This chipping situation is very sad. I would not have expected it from him.
_________________________
It's true, I have a blog. http://climbandpunishment.blogspot.com/

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#67466 - 02/22/13 04:06 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: SethG]
crimpy Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 07/02/11
Posts: 331
Loc: Wawarsing
Originally Posted By: SethG
Used to be you could hear climbers coming with their cowbells, but now they all sneak up on you with their soft, quiet crash pads. I have had to cross to the other side of the carriage road many times when I've not liked the look of those teenage bouldery types. The beanies, the jeans.... what is the world coming to?


word!

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#67468 - 02/22/13 10:03 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: crimpy]
RobT Offline
stranger

Registered: 11/05/09
Posts: 17
Loc: Washington Heights
Crimpy,
I'm interested in hearing about wilderness ethics and the conservation mentality in boulderers because I really don't see it myself. Yvon Chouinard used to (maybe he still does) rail quite elequently about this. I'll try to find some of it and post links for you to read.
Re. IG.You may not remember the incident several years ago when he named a boulder problem "The sweat of a Rapist." Yuk!
This kid went wrong.

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#67469 - 02/22/13 10:29 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: RobT]
crimpy Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 07/02/11
Posts: 331
Loc: Wawarsing
every boulderer i know is a trad climber also. i honestly dont know anyone who really only boulders, but i am oldish....fuckin kids!
sweat of the rapist is a v 10 boulder problem on the worthless boulder not far from where the central park jogger incident took place, yes a bit innapropriate. the last section of the problem is a v7 titled family values.That problem is awesome!

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#67471 - 02/24/13 06:39 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: donald perry]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey


Apparently from reading many of the comments on many climbing forums, Ivan Greene has been doing this for years, and when confronted has denied it. So they finally caught him on two videos with sledge hammers. Instead of rising to the challenge and leaving pristine rock for the future generations of climbers he's destroying the resource for his own self-glorification ego trip. He's written a guidebook to bouldering at the Gunks, so his behavior has a impact and sets an example to other climbers. I guess he changed his mind, his guidebook states clearly that chipping is never justified ... and apparently he is chipping all over the place.

The preserve needs to call a meeting about this as soon as possible, and we need to call them and express our concern so that they realize that we care about it and call such a meeting. There has to be some laws for this kind of thing. The Preserve has banned people from the Gunks before. I think they should have a meeting with people like this, find out who else knows about it, and who else is doing it, and ban all of them from the Gunks for at least three years so they can think about it, after which they can put up a bond for $1000.00. And then after 10 years, then perhaps the bond could be reduced to a lesser amount. If we do nothing the clipping will continue, it seems that it is an unstoppable habit now, like some kind of addiction.
In the past I have seen people using hooks and aid climbing, chipping off holds at the Uberfall, I told the ranger about it sitting not far off, he said there was no policy to enforce. I picked up a rock and told them that I was going to knock them out if they did not get off the rock. This is why there is a part of the hold missing on one of the Gill problems.
But I am not perfect either, but I can say that I have learned the hard way. As far as I know I was the *first* to have chipped holds. In the middle of the Near Trapps I pried a rotten piece of rock out of a crack with the end of a Chouinard hammer so I could place a small friend. This written up in a climbing magazine, [Pox in Vulgaria -- The Profit of Impurism A Commentary by Mark Robinson. This article was featured in Climbing Magazine in 1977.] where I was rightly publicly humiliated and ostracized by the climbing community. And I am very sorry about it, even to this day. Thankfully, I have been forgiven.

So, having been forced to do a lot of soul searching and thinking about the subject back in the 70's, I can say that I came to realize that, this is not the right thing to do. Sculpting rock the same way people do in a climbing gym is wrong, even if it means only using a crow bar, even if it is on Twilight Zone. If it is OK to chip in one place, it is OK to chip in another, and then there is no end to it. The reason we come up to the Gunks is to get away from this kind of stuff, isn't it? So I hope we are going to try and put a stop to this now.
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#67472 - 02/24/13 07:12 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: donald perry]
yorick Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 1041
Loc: hamlet\'s hand
Originally Posted By: donald perry
The preserve needs to call a meeting


The Preserve contacted him about this awhile ago.
_________________________
Shongum ain\'t Indian,
it\'s Shawank-unk.

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#67473 - 02/24/13 07:30 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: yorick]
jakedatc Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/18/06
Posts: 241
Once again Terry spouts off about something she knows nothing about... there are thousands of boulderers who are just as respectful as any trad climber out there. Go look up the real developers in high end bouldering.. Dave Graham, Daniel Woods, Jimmy Webb, Jason Kehl etc How about John Gill, John Sherman, Fred Nichole, Ben Moon.

yea you've probably never head of any of them because you climb 5.4 at the gunks your whole life. Ever boulder when you're in Jtree.. yea doubtful..


Rob T not to defend Ivan too much but naming routes/problems in crude ways is not new and there are plenty of examples at the Gunks.. do you know what Coprophagia means?


Hopefully the locals deal with Ivan the same way the CT/W. mass folks dealt with Ken Nichols and gets trespassing notices and if he violates them then he can get fined or whatever if he breaks it.

By the way.. one of the Access Fund board members from CT is a boulderer.

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#67475 - 02/24/13 10:49 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: jakedatc]
TerrieM Offline
addict

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 425
Loc: Gunks in Summer, Southwest in ...
And once again Jakedatc froths at the mouth upon seeing a post by me....

It would be funny if it wasn't a regular behavior out if you. My god, it sounds like you are wetting your pants as you type, so not in control of your own emotions.

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#67476 - 02/24/13 11:00 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: jakedatc]
RobT Offline
stranger

Registered: 11/05/09
Posts: 17
Loc: Washington Heights
jakedatc,
as someone (you) who travels around to different areas (presumably for quite a number of years?) you are impressed with the wilderness ethic of the present generation of "boulderers"?
How are we doing compaired to say 2003 or 1993?

Re: TerrieM's comment.Bouldering has exploded in popularity in the last 5-to-? years (do you agree?). Do you think that it's likely that there are sufficient "mentors" to influence so many naive climbers? Their enthusiasm is untempered by experience in my opinion.

Not to defend TerrieM but I'm the one (and Yvon Chouinard) who slandered the wilderness ethics of boulderers.

Finally...coprophagia to you.



Edited by RobT (02/24/13 11:43 PM)

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#67477 - 02/24/13 11:06 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: donald perry]
retroscree Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 397
Originally Posted By: donald perry
But I am not perfect either, but I can say that I have learned the hard way. As far as I know I was the *first* to have chipped holds. In the middle of the Near Trapps I pried a rotten piece of rock out of a crack with the end of a Chouinard hammer so I could place a small friend. This written up in a climbing magazine, [Pox in Vulgaria -- The Profit of Impurism A Commentary by Mark Robinson. This article was featured in Climbing Magazine in 1977.] where I was rightly publicly humiliated and ostracized by the climbing community. And I am very sorry about it, even to this day. Thankfully, I have been forgiven.


One of the more blatant acts of chipping? Perhaps, but being the first to chip in the Gunks? Hardly, by a long shot.

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#67478 - 02/24/13 11:19 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: retroscree]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: retroscree
Originally Posted By: donald perry
But I am not perfect either, but I can say that I have learned the hard way. As far as I know I was the *first* to have chipped holds. In the middle of the Near Trapps I pried a rotten piece of rock out of a crack with the end of a Chouinard hammer so I could place a small friend. This written up in a climbing magazine, [Pox in Vulgaria -- The Profit of Impurism A Commentary by Mark Robinson. This article was featured in Climbing Magazine in 1977.] where I was rightly publicly humiliated and ostracized by the climbing community. And I am very sorry about it, even to this day. Thankfully, I have been forgiven.


One of the more blatant acts of chipping? Perhaps, but being the first to chip in the Gunks? Hardly, by a long shot.


What are you talking about? I said "As far as I know". Are you saying I know something that I am telling? But, if you tell me something I don't know, then I can no longer say "As far as I know." And if it is "not by a long shot", this should be easy work for you. Go ahead, make my day.


http://www.specialisedgeo.com.au/contact-us/


Edited by donald perry (02/24/13 11:34 PM)
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#67479 - 02/24/13 11:31 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: TerrieM]
jakedatc Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/18/06
Posts: 241
Originally Posted By: TerrieM
And once again Jakedatc froths at the mouth upon seeing a post by me....

It would be funny if it wasn't a regular behavior out if you. My god, it sounds like you are wetting your pants as you type, so not in control of your own emotions.


and Terrie you are, as usual clueless about what you try to comment on. stick to stickers and tshirt eh? If you've never BEEN bouldering how do you know what happens in various bouldering areas? you see one guy chipping and flip out on a whole community who has nothing to do with him. You don't know me and I wish I didn't know you.

AHEM.. Jardine traverse anyone? yea.. good trad ethics there.. how about drilled hook placements.. or Pin it until there is a hold.. Traddies sneaking in to climb Sky Top.. taking shits on High E?

Rob I've bouldered in the Gunks along the carriage road, Pawtuckaway NH, Milford, MA and Lincoln woods, RI in the past 12 years i've been climbing.

Gunks, i've seen nothing much that differed from normal trad craggers at the gunks.. gear splayed out, dogs, typical carriage road scene. roped or unroped.

Pawtuckaway. Is a pretty natural setting with minimal trails and keeps the beauty of the state park.

Milford,MA parking access is difficult so the areas are pretty untouched. if you aren't looking for it or shown how to get there, probably won't find it.

Lincoln RI is in a very urban area with park road access and a lot of rock in a small area. This concentration and convenience has beat up the areas around popular boulders. For many years we had an Access Fund event for park cleanup that between 20-50 people would attend to collect trash and other trail work. we removed literally tons of trash that was generally not put there by climbers. The most damage to the rock was caused by a NH trad guide who decided to dry tool on established routes and broke many holds on at least 2 problems.


Edited by jakedatc (02/24/13 11:34 PM)

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#67480 - 02/24/13 11:42 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: TerrieM]
jakedatc Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/18/06
Posts: 241
Originally Posted By: TerrieM
Off the subject, but I would like to see the major climbing-related companies choosing to sponsor boulderers who are dedicated to reduced impact and make it a part of the message they bring to those following.


So many people who don't come to climbing the old route(through mentorship)are into bouldering, and I see a real lack of land stewardship being put out in the media when it comes to covering bouldering.



tell me, what trad climber or hell sport climber is sponsored for their land stewardship? show me some links. The climbing media cares about sends, projects and gear.

Ken nichols came up the "old way" and has destroyed more rock faces than anyone i can think of.

are you saying that Ken Nichols is of a higher ethic than Daniel Woods or Adam Ondra who have become stronger than anyone without the need of a "mentor"

I am in no way defending Ivan.. he has gone out of his way to screw things up. he should not be seen as a representative of the bouldering community. His attitude, style, noise etc is often discussed as repulsive by most.

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#67481 - 02/24/13 11:45 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: jakedatc]
TerrieM Offline
addict

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 425
Loc: Gunks in Summer, Southwest in ...
Quote:
If you've never BEEN bouldering how do you know what happens in various bouldering areas? you see one guy chipping and flip out on a whole community who has nothing to do with him. You don't know me and I wish I didn't know you.


Why must you be such an asshole? Some places I have been, bouldering:
- Joshua Tree
- New Jack City
- Yosemite
- Eagle Peak
- Cochise Stronghold
- Some place outside Albequerque which name escapes me at the moment
- Horse Pens

It might surprise you to know that you don't have any idea where I have been, what I have climbed, who I climb with and what I know.

I have not "seen" one guy chipping, nor have I "flipped out." Nor have I discounted the bouldering community as a whole. This is just you, being hysterical. As usual, when it comes to any post I make.

Funny, how there is a small group of internet men who just feel the need to go berzerk when they see my posts. Not a damned ONE of you has ever had the balls to say something to me face to face. I have found it humorous, sitting around a campfire at times, and seeing the seething internet bullies shame-facedly avoiding eye contact.

Please - feel free to speak to me and be the gawdawful asshat you display online when you do run into me at a crag.

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#67482 - 02/24/13 11:49 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: TerrieM]
jakedatc Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/18/06
Posts: 241
I have no desire to talk to you.


you do trail work every week... why aren't you sponsored and on the cover of Rock and Ice? oh wait.. companies sponsor climbers to be the faces of their company and increase exposure.

Boulderers aren't the only ones coming up without mentors and chipping and other destruction isn't a common issue. If you haven't seen problems then why did you even bring up the issue of boulderers without mentors?

sitting on the Welcome Rock on the carriage road doesn't count as bouldering wink


Edited by jakedatc (02/25/13 12:03 AM)

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#67484 - 02/25/13 02:39 AM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: jakedatc]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
You guys are getting way off topic.

Anyway, I can see there is a problem when you are putting up a new route and the holds start breaking off, and the breaks may turn out to be negative. Whereas if you had pulled on the hold differently, it would have actually left a positive hold.

Is there any room for argument here?


Edited by donald perry (02/25/13 02:40 AM)
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#67485 - 02/25/13 02:42 AM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: donald perry]
jakedatc Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/18/06
Posts: 241
Well putting up a new route with loose rock is different then going to town with a chisel. loose rocks and broken holds are going to happen. completely manufacturing something isn't ok.

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#67486 - 02/25/13 03:09 AM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: jakedatc]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: jakedatc
Well putting up a new route with loose rock is different then going to town with a chisel. loose rocks and broken holds are going to happen. completely manufacturing something isn't ok.


So there are cases where it is ok to use a chisel.
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#67488 - 02/25/13 03:50 AM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: donald perry]
jakedatc Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/18/06
Posts: 241
Originally Posted By: donald perry
Originally Posted By: jakedatc
Well putting up a new route with loose rock is different then going to town with a chisel. loose rocks and broken holds are going to happen. completely manufacturing something isn't ok.


So there are cases where it is ok to use a chisel.


How did you get that from what i said? you've done how many FA's Don.. what do YOU do on a brand new route?

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#67489 - 02/25/13 05:38 AM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: jakedatc]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
OK, so there is no case where it is OK to use a chisel. How do you feel about Twilight Zone? Would you complain about that?
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#67491 - 02/25/13 06:10 AM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: crimpy]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
We had this big flake on one climb, it was big and loose and dangerous. I just left it, later on, someone else pulled it off, and they might have used a crow bar because it scared them too much.

But, aside from what I already said, to be honest, I never had a need for a chisel. I always look to find another way up, or I could not do the move and gave up for so many years. I will stick nut tools in cracks or jerk small friends around till all the shit falls out. But I have not used a hammer. The idea really never has an occasion to enter my mind.

I would not want to do a manufactured climb, I hate climbing gyms for just that reason. However, if part of a flake broke off and left an undesirable hold, I think I would feel comfortable to change the rest of the flake back again to the way it was before. But ... the reason I come here is to be amazed. A chiseled climb does not interest me at all. There is nothing interesting or amazing about it at all. The idea about climbing, that I love is coming to understand creation, I think it is a very magical thing, to feel one, and at peace in the mountains. To listen to the wind blow through the trees at night at the top of a climb.

The mountains should not be a place to be about conquered with a gun, or with a chain saw, or with a chisel. I understand them to be about discovering and being a place of enlightenment. It is not what I might take from a climb, but what the climb might give to me. This is the reason I come here, and the reason I understand that it's here, it's full of light. And when it speaks I'm trying to listen, but I don't always understand it very well, it's very complex, what does it all mean? Sometimes I am left speechless in awe and wonder.
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#67492 - 02/25/13 06:59 AM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: donald perry]
jakedatc Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/18/06
Posts: 241
"holds break, grade stays the same" -jack marshall NJC

I think we agree.. cleaning a route you will need to dig out some cracks, remove loose rock and i'm even ok with reinforcing holds that have the potential of breaking but are important to the route (if done well.. there are some hack jobs). sometimes holds break and you can't do anything about it.. easier harder depends how it goes. I don't agree with purposely altering a route, especially if it is to make it easier or harder or even existing. some rock can't be climbed yet.. leave it. V15 wasn't possible a few years ago.. now it is.

never been on Twilight zone.. over my head.

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#67493 - 02/25/13 10:43 AM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: jakedatc]
oenophore Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 5979
Loc: 212 land
Come to think of it, no one has mentioned the location of that videorecorded abomination. Does anyone know?
_________________________

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#67494 - 02/25/13 12:31 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: oenophore]
Rickster Offline
old hand

Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 853
Loc: Orange Cty, NY
I've not seen anything definitive, however the many comments on different forums have identified the boulder as in the Gunks, and another said it was in Rockland County. In the close ups the rock looks very much like our own quartz conglomerate.

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#67495 - 02/25/13 01:42 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: jakedatc]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
"never been on Twilight zone.. over my head."

For a long time people worked on it, it finally went free at 5.13b with the help of a crow bar.

As I understand it, at the time there were a group of climbers who liked to go to a quarry and use chisels who eventually found themselves on this climb.

My point of bringing it up is that, I think if it is OK to use a crow bar on Twilight Zone, then it how can anyone say it is not OK to use it everywhere else?
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#67497 - 02/25/13 02:54 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: donald perry]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3765
Loc: Ulster County, NY
Donald, in my opinion it certainly was not okay to use a crowbar on Twilight Zone. That being said, I've never attempted to free it. It makes me sad that such a "signature" route in the Gunks was manufactured to make it easier/safer.

I view it this way. There is a shitload of rock out there to climb on. Boulderers have it partivulary easy in that regard. There is literally enough unexplored bouldering within 2 or 3 miles of the road in NY to last for multiple lifetimes. If something is to hard for you, then move on to something that isn't too hard for you. It's not a damned gym. You can't just create holds wherever you want them. The sport of climbing means you take what the rock gives you to work with, and either you are good enough or you aren't good enough. The two fuckwads in the video were clearly not good enough to climb the route as it was given to them. Egos get in the way, and we all know who has a big ego, don't we.

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#67501 - 02/25/13 03:26 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: donald perry]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
Well, I don't know how big my ego is, it is hard to measure that from here or to know what to do about it. I do know I have a big mouth, the truth is I am easily addicted to posting things people are not interested in, and I like to argue a lot. I don't mind criticism, I like to cooperate, but not without an argument. I hope my ego will always be within reason, I think it is. I would rather be talking about the climb, we are getting off topic. But maybe not, maybe all this is about the ego, it's not about the rock, is it?

And I am glad we can agree about Twilight Zone. However on the other hand, I think if someone took some photos and it went up for discussion first, perhaps over a long period of time we could figure it out and it might be that we would decide to remove it. That would be OK. But I do not think people should take it upon themselves to privately remove rock on public land. And I think that is the true sign that one's ego is way out of wack. Even if they may be very good at hiding that fact.

PS I only saw one wad, where was the other?
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#67502 - 02/25/13 06:46 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: crimpy]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
Alex Greene should explain why he feels he needs to use a chisel and a hammer when he climbs in the Gunks and elsewhere, or else explain why he does not use a hammer and chisel?

How many of his bolder problems have been dressed with a chisel?

What about East Cost Thriller?

What about all his other bolder problems, does he or someone else use a chisel on all of them, or just some of them?

I think the answer to this is yes, some group of people feel it is productive to use a chisel the same way we use chalk, but I think if he or they want any kind of respect they needs to take responsibility and start explaining to us what they did, are now doing, and what they intends to do in the future.


What about it Alex, are you man enough to deal with this problem the same way you deal with your boulders?


Edited by donald perry (02/25/13 06:49 PM)
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#67503 - 02/25/13 06:57 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: donald perry]
Adrian Offline
journeyman

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 73
Who's Alex?

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#67504 - 02/25/13 07:29 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: Adrian]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
Not the guy I am talking to, for legal reasons.

I think the true test of a man is to solve a problem like this, not to run away and hide from it. If it was me, I would admit to it, in fact I did admit to it!
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#67505 - 02/25/13 07:43 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: donald perry]
Adrian Offline
journeyman

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 73
What legal reason? What did you admit?

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#67507 - 02/25/13 08:41 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: donald perry]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
No, you misunderstood me. I am talking to the people who like to chip rock in the Gunks and invent new boulder problems this way. I am sure there is more than one guy, and I would imagine that the people here SHOULD know who they are.

http://bassforyourface.com/blog/


I am just using the name Alex rather than Ivan because I do not want to use *anyone's* real name.

In the defense of Alex I would say that whatever he did, no one should go back there and out of spite chisel some more. Alex is chiseling to invent climbs at least, bring things down to his grade, that's the good news. The bad news is he is doing so without consulting the climbing community or the land owners first to get permition.

So it's not the end of the world, unless he does not start talking and change his game plan. [In other words he is not aiding up boulder problems and chipping the holds off.]
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#67508 - 02/25/13 09:17 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: donald perry]
Adrian Offline
journeyman

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 73
So Alex is Ivan? Who are the other guys you are referring to? Brass to your face? Can I use iron instead?

If he doesn't start talking, why would it be end of the world?

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#67509 - 02/25/13 10:45 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: Adrian]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
Alex, Ivan, any name is fine ... there has to more than just one person doing this, it must be habitual, and they have to be in agreement. I would suppose that there has been a group of boulders who have now created a number of hard problems with chisels by now.

I remember watching a movie on that channel a few years ago that basically said something needed to be done that more routes could go up. At the time chisels did not enter my mind.

I find it strange that we do not know who took the video. Perhaps the group had some kind of falling out? If not, then why didn't the guy with the camera confront the guy with the chisel? I would have, and voiced my opinion on video. Hammering makes a lot of noise, at least the way he was doing it. It does not seem like he was very concerned about it, so why not confront him with the camera? Now we had to guess who it is until he admitted it.
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#67510 - 02/25/13 11:39 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: donald perry]
Rickster Offline
old hand

Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 853
Loc: Orange Cty, NY
Originally Posted By: donald perry


I am just using the name Alex rather than Ivan because I do not want to use *anyone's* real name.

In the defense of Alex......


Don, you a funny guy. Didn't you just out Ivan, then go back to using "Alex" to hide his identity? And, in a thread where he's already been outed. Got me laughing dude, funny stuff. laugh

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#67511 - 02/25/13 11:55 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: crimpy]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
"I am just using the name Alex rather than Ivan because I do not want to use *anyone's* real name."

But your forgetting, I never said Ivan, you guys did. I have stayed away from that and talked about Alex Greene. He is a work of fiction and reality. And when I said "anyone" I meant anyone, not Alex rather then Ivan.

Now, if I said "I am just using the name Alex rather than Ivan because I do not want to use Ivans real name." Then I would not be able to argue with you.


Edited by donald perry (02/25/13 11:57 PM)
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#67512 - 02/25/13 11:58 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: donald perry]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
And I did say "Apparently from reading many of the comments on many climbing forums, Ivan Greene has been doing this for years". I never said he did it. How do I know whose doing it?, I'm just reading the thread.



But if wants to be a man, then he needs to come out and admit it.



Edited by donald perry (02/26/13 12:44 AM)
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#67515 - 02/26/13 03:25 AM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: crimpy]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
This is a photo of Ivan Greene hanging off the hold that the FFA party of Twilight Zone chiseled out.



This is where it all started, on Twilight Zone.

Here is a movie onto it, great movie, the chiseled hold is just out of sight over the lip.

http://tradclimbingvideos.com/twilight-zone-5-13b-shawangunks-1213/

From the TS Guide book: While this rout's crux is on Twilight Zone, the majority of the climb is an independent line. A tremendous amount of work went into this including "improving" holds and the placement of a bolt Starting on the GT ledge. … The second pitch is called The French Connection (aka Jackhammered). From the belay, traverse straight right … then over the roof at a fingerlock (crux, fingerlock chiseled out to "improve" it) to the top (5.12+G).

Any complaints? Or no? ... see the movie first.
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#67516 - 02/26/13 10:32 AM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: donald perry]
oenophore Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 5979
Loc: 212 land
Don, I like your photo selection (jackhammer.) It seems I have a rival in this field.
_________________________

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#67517 - 02/26/13 12:41 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: oenophore]
NYZoo Offline
journeyman

Registered: 07/06/08
Posts: 59
Loc: Gunks
I may be wrong because I haven't personally climbed Twilight Zone or the variation French Connection but I believe that video is of a direct variation that Cody put up on the Twilight Zone buttress into the French Connection (aka Jackhammer). I don't know what he called it. I was told that the French Connection was chipped which was put up before Twighlight Zone was finally sent. I think the Twilight zone roof goes straight up where he begins to traverse right onto the French Connection? I've never heard that the twilight Zone roof was chipped.

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#67518 - 02/26/13 03:10 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: Adrian]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: NYZoo
I may be wrong because I haven …


Here is another photo of the hold, you can see it has been chiseled out in the photo above.



Originally Posted By: Adrian
... why would it "not" be end of the world?


Because Ivan is at least making his own climbs, not taking down other peoples routes using hooks and chipping off holds because he is aiding free climbs. Like those two bumbling fools I yelled at on Uberfall boulder problems who put up a fight.

The time to voice an opinion actually was a long time ago, but you guys said nothing. Can we really complain now?, this kind of behavior has been grandfathered in. Ivan is a result of the environment you created. "Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil. Though a sinner do evil an hundred times, and his days be prolonged , yet surely I know that it shall be well with them that fear God, which fear before him: But it shall not be well with the wicked, neither shall he prolong his days, which are as a shadow; because he feareth not before God."

Who thinks it's a good idea to go back up on Twilight Zone and put back a stone in that hole they chiseled out and make it as it the way it was before? No bucket, just a little crack big enough to get a vertical edge.

Let him who is without sin cast the first stone!
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#67519 - 02/26/13 03:14 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: Adrian]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: NYZoo
I may be wrong because I haven …


Here is another photo of the hold, you can see it has been chiseled out in the photo above.



Originally Posted By: Adrian
... why would it "not" be end of the world?


Because Ivan is at least making his own climbs, not taking down other peoples routes using hooks and chipping off holds because he is aiding free climbs. Like those two bumbling fools I yelled at on Uberfall boulder problems who put up a fight.

The time to voice an opinion actually was a long time ago, but you guys said nothing. Can we really complain now?, this kind of behavior has been grandfathered in. Ivan is a result of the environment you created. "Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil. Though a sinner do evil an hundred times, and his days be prolonged , yet surely I know that it shall be well with them that fear God, which fear before him: But it shall not be well with the wicked, neither shall he prolong his days, which are as a shadow; because he feareth not before God."

Who thinks it's a good idea to go back up on Twilight Zone and put back a stone in that hole they chiseled out and make it as it was before? No bucket, just a little crack big enough to get a vertical edge.

Let him who is without sin cast the first stone!
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#67520 - 02/26/13 03:24 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: donald perry]
crimpy Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 07/02/11
Posts: 331
Loc: Wawarsing
nice video,give me psyche!
thanks don.

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#67529 - 02/27/13 04:57 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: crimpy]
gunkie Offline
member

Registered: 07/19/00
Posts: 120
Loc: New Hope, PA
I didn't read the whole thread, but can anyone describe the scene when Arrow got two bolts? I was happy when the old 1/4" spinners were replaced with modern bolts. However, I hate those damn rappel routes. There is a perfectly good walk down that will get you back to your gear at the base in less than 20 minutes, in large part. The point is, everyone's got a threshold.

As far as Ivan goes, and I don't condone chipping, but I get the sense that this guy has already paid and will continue to pay for his blatant indiscretions. He's already got a scarlet letter hanging around his neck. If he's caught again... I suspect the penalties will be quite severe.

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#67530 - 02/27/13 05:10 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: donald perry]
gunkie Offline
member

Registered: 07/19/00
Posts: 120
Loc: New Hope, PA
Comment on Twilight Zone... If you've ever aided it, there is a rotten seam that runs out the horizontal where you traverse left under the roofs. In that seam, there is an obvious 'letter slot' hold that has been manufactured.

So yes, one of the Gunks premier free climbs is effectively a climb that was built to be free climbed by the best talent of 1995 (or thereabouts). How will the climbing talent of 2015 measure up?

Karma's a bitch and seems to have caught up with at least one of the original gang.

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#67531 - 02/27/13 05:22 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: gunkie]
retroscree Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 397
Originally Posted By: gunkie
...but can anyone describe the scene when Arrow got two bolts? I was happy when the old 1/4" spinners were replaced with modern bolts. However, I hate those damn rappel routes.

Do you mean the protection bolts or the rap bolts?
As a related question: there are rap bolts on Arrow now???

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#67532 - 02/27/13 05:33 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: gunkie]
Frank Florence Offline
addict

Registered: 01/05/00
Posts: 528
Loc: moved to Bend
Gunkie, if you're referring to the two protection bolts on the top pitch of Arrow, I had a conversation with Will Crowther (who placed the originals) about them. He said he did it because the face had very good climbing on it but poor protection and he wanted to make it more appealing to climbers who wouldn't have gone up there otherwise. He was right. Based on the fact that his original gear has been replaced with more substantial bolts, the community seems to have accepted his premise and values the climb in its bolted condition.

In contrast, Crowther's original bolt on Moonlight was considered unnecessary and chopped.

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#67536 - 02/27/13 07:12 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: Frank Florence]
retroscree Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 397
Originally Posted By: Frank Florence
Based on the fact that his original gear has been replaced with more substantial bolts,...

...several times.
And the originals were placed on rappel.

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#67539 - 02/28/13 06:12 AM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: crimpy]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
There was a progressive change in thinking about aid that eventally petered out.

You can see it in the book Yankee Rock and Ice.

http://books.google.com/books?id=3LtZKlC...p;q&f=false
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#67543 - 02/28/13 07:28 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: donald perry]
retroscree Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 397
For those who wish to continue to be amused by The Donald, he's taken his incoherent rambling and twisted logic on this subject to the taco stand.

The thread starts here: http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/2076203/Chipping-culprit-filmed-in-NY

DP makes his appearance around post #440.

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#67546 - 02/28/13 08:39 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: retroscree]
SethG Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 713
Loc: NYC
As far as the Arrow bolts are concerned-- I think the basic history (not that I was there...) is that some Gunks developers were okay with the occasional protection bolt, in line with traditional climbing development in many other areas around the country. It wasn't just Crowther; Dick Williams installed several bolts on Gunks climbs over the years. I think some folks disapproved but there was not a war over it because the community was small as was the number of bolts. It went to a different place when the fear arose that a new generation of climbers would put up a whole bunch of super-difficult lines protected by lines of bolts, as was becoming the norm in other areas. The specter of this sort of development is what drove the debate and eventual ban on bolts.
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#67547 - 02/28/13 08:45 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: crimpy]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
.


Edited by donald perry (02/28/13 09:25 PM)
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#67548 - 02/28/13 08:47 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: donald perry]
SethG Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 713
Loc: NYC
Is this a game of "Guess the Chipped Route?"
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#67549 - 02/28/13 09:08 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: SethG]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
Not exactly. The location is supposed to be of private concern. See Supertopo at a link provided above.


Edited by donald perry (02/28/13 09:13 PM)
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#67550 - 02/28/13 09:26 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: donald perry]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey

The location is supposed to be of private concern, but not necessarily on private land.





http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k !
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#67551 - 02/28/13 11:02 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: donald perry]
crimpy Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 07/02/11
Posts: 331
Loc: Wawarsing
triple right.steppin razor boulder.

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#67552 - 02/28/13 11:21 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: crimpy]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
The poster wanted to keep the location private. Let's just say it's East of Skytop somewhere?
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#67554 - 03/01/13 06:49 AM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: donald perry]
donald perry Offline
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Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
"Karma's a bitch and seems to have caught up with at least one of the original gang." Jack Meliski(RIP) was a friend of ours, so I guess we're next? Nevertheless, no one gets into heaven because they are are good. "There is none good but one, that is, God." "A man is justified by faith, without works of law." That's the reason Christ died.


Edited by donald perry (03/01/13 07:01 AM)
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The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#67555 - 03/01/13 10:47 AM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: donald perry]
oenophore Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 5979
Loc: 212 land
Originally Posted By: donald perry
"Karma's a bitch and seems to have caught up with at least one of the original gang." Jack Meliski(RIP) was a friend of ours, so I guess we're next? Nevertheless, no one gets into heaven because they are are good. "There is none good but one, that is, God." "A man is justified by faith, without works of law." That's the reason Christ died.
Whoops; how did theology rear its ugly head here? Will rock chippers be Satan's choice in their afterlife?
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#67556 - 03/01/13 02:33 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: oenophore]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
I am quoting GUNKIE, ask him.


Edited by donald perry (03/01/13 02:34 PM)
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The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#67559 - 03/01/13 03:47 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: gunkie]
curmudgeon Offline
addict

Registered: 10/27/10
Posts: 466
Quote:
Karma's a bitch and seems to have caught up with at least one of the original gang.

Gunkie, What a horrible thing to say.

Jack I wish you were still with us and miss you dearly!

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