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#67468 - 02/22/13 10:03 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: crimpy]
RobT Offline
stranger

Registered: 11/05/09
Posts: 17
Loc: Washington Heights
Crimpy,
I'm interested in hearing about wilderness ethics and the conservation mentality in boulderers because I really don't see it myself. Yvon Chouinard used to (maybe he still does) rail quite elequently about this. I'll try to find some of it and post links for you to read.
Re. IG.You may not remember the incident several years ago when he named a boulder problem "The sweat of a Rapist." Yuk!
This kid went wrong.

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#67469 - 02/22/13 10:29 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: RobT]
crimpy Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 07/02/11
Posts: 331
Loc: Wawarsing
every boulderer i know is a trad climber also. i honestly dont know anyone who really only boulders, but i am oldish....fuckin kids!
sweat of the rapist is a v 10 boulder problem on the worthless boulder not far from where the central park jogger incident took place, yes a bit innapropriate. the last section of the problem is a v7 titled family values.That problem is awesome!

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#67471 - 02/24/13 06:39 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: donald perry]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1536
Loc: New Jersey


Apparently from reading many of the comments on many climbing forums, Ivan Greene has been doing this for years, and when confronted has denied it. So they finally caught him on two videos with sledge hammers. Instead of rising to the challenge and leaving pristine rock for the future generations of climbers he's destroying the resource for his own self-glorification ego trip. He's written a guidebook to bouldering at the Gunks, so his behavior has a impact and sets an example to other climbers. I guess he changed his mind, his guidebook states clearly that chipping is never justified ... and apparently he is chipping all over the place.

The preserve needs to call a meeting about this as soon as possible, and we need to call them and express our concern so that they realize that we care about it and call such a meeting. There has to be some laws for this kind of thing. The Preserve has banned people from the Gunks before. I think they should have a meeting with people like this, find out who else knows about it, and who else is doing it, and ban all of them from the Gunks for at least three years so they can think about it, after which they can put up a bond for $1000.00. And then after 10 years, then perhaps the bond could be reduced to a lesser amount. If we do nothing the clipping will continue, it seems that it is an unstoppable habit now, like some kind of addiction.
In the past I have seen people using hooks and aid climbing, chipping off holds at the Uberfall, I told the ranger about it sitting not far off, he said there was no policy to enforce. I picked up a rock and told them that I was going to knock them out if they did not get off the rock. This is why there is a part of the hold missing on one of the Gill problems.
But I am not perfect either, but I can say that I have learned the hard way. As far as I know I was the *first* to have chipped holds. In the middle of the Near Trapps I pried a rotten piece of rock out of a crack with the end of a Chouinard hammer so I could place a small friend. This written up in a climbing magazine, [Pox in Vulgaria -- The Profit of Impurism A Commentary by Mark Robinson. This article was featured in Climbing Magazine in 1977.] where I was rightly publicly humiliated and ostracized by the climbing community. And I am very sorry about it, even to this day. Thankfully, I have been forgiven.

So, having been forced to do a lot of soul searching and thinking about the subject back in the 70's, I can say that I came to realize that, this is not the right thing to do. Sculpting rock the same way people do in a climbing gym is wrong, even if it means only using a crow bar, even if it is on Twilight Zone. If it is OK to chip in one place, it is OK to chip in another, and then there is no end to it. The reason we come up to the Gunks is to get away from this kind of stuff, isn't it? So I hope we are going to try and put a stop to this now.
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#67472 - 02/24/13 07:12 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: donald perry]
yorick Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 1041
Loc: hamlet\'s hand
Originally Posted By: donald perry
The preserve needs to call a meeting


The Preserve contacted him about this awhile ago.
_________________________
Shongum ain\'t Indian,
it\'s Shawank-unk.

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#67473 - 02/24/13 07:30 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: yorick]
jakedatc Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/18/06
Posts: 241
Once again Terry spouts off about something she knows nothing about... there are thousands of boulderers who are just as respectful as any trad climber out there. Go look up the real developers in high end bouldering.. Dave Graham, Daniel Woods, Jimmy Webb, Jason Kehl etc How about John Gill, John Sherman, Fred Nichole, Ben Moon.

yea you've probably never head of any of them because you climb 5.4 at the gunks your whole life. Ever boulder when you're in Jtree.. yea doubtful..


Rob T not to defend Ivan too much but naming routes/problems in crude ways is not new and there are plenty of examples at the Gunks.. do you know what Coprophagia means?


Hopefully the locals deal with Ivan the same way the CT/W. mass folks dealt with Ken Nichols and gets trespassing notices and if he violates them then he can get fined or whatever if he breaks it.

By the way.. one of the Access Fund board members from CT is a boulderer.

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#67475 - 02/24/13 10:49 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: jakedatc]
TerrieM Offline
addict

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 426
Loc: Gunks in Summer, Southwest in ...
And once again Jakedatc froths at the mouth upon seeing a post by me....

It would be funny if it wasn't a regular behavior out if you. My god, it sounds like you are wetting your pants as you type, so not in control of your own emotions.

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#67476 - 02/24/13 11:00 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: jakedatc]
RobT Offline
stranger

Registered: 11/05/09
Posts: 17
Loc: Washington Heights
jakedatc,
as someone (you) who travels around to different areas (presumably for quite a number of years?) you are impressed with the wilderness ethic of the present generation of "boulderers"?
How are we doing compaired to say 2003 or 1993?

Re: TerrieM's comment.Bouldering has exploded in popularity in the last 5-to-? years (do you agree?). Do you think that it's likely that there are sufficient "mentors" to influence so many naive climbers? Their enthusiasm is untempered by experience in my opinion.

Not to defend TerrieM but I'm the one (and Yvon Chouinard) who slandered the wilderness ethics of boulderers.

Finally...coprophagia to you.



Edited by RobT (02/24/13 11:43 PM)

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#67477 - 02/24/13 11:06 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: donald perry]
retroscree Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 397
Originally Posted By: donald perry
But I am not perfect either, but I can say that I have learned the hard way. As far as I know I was the *first* to have chipped holds. In the middle of the Near Trapps I pried a rotten piece of rock out of a crack with the end of a Chouinard hammer so I could place a small friend. This written up in a climbing magazine, [Pox in Vulgaria -- The Profit of Impurism A Commentary by Mark Robinson. This article was featured in Climbing Magazine in 1977.] where I was rightly publicly humiliated and ostracized by the climbing community. And I am very sorry about it, even to this day. Thankfully, I have been forgiven.


One of the more blatant acts of chipping? Perhaps, but being the first to chip in the Gunks? Hardly, by a long shot.

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#67478 - 02/24/13 11:19 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: retroscree]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1536
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: retroscree
Originally Posted By: donald perry
But I am not perfect either, but I can say that I have learned the hard way. As far as I know I was the *first* to have chipped holds. In the middle of the Near Trapps I pried a rotten piece of rock out of a crack with the end of a Chouinard hammer so I could place a small friend. This written up in a climbing magazine, [Pox in Vulgaria -- The Profit of Impurism A Commentary by Mark Robinson. This article was featured in Climbing Magazine in 1977.] where I was rightly publicly humiliated and ostracized by the climbing community. And I am very sorry about it, even to this day. Thankfully, I have been forgiven.


One of the more blatant acts of chipping? Perhaps, but being the first to chip in the Gunks? Hardly, by a long shot.


What are you talking about? I said "As far as I know". Are you saying I know something that I am telling? But, if you tell me something I don't know, then I can no longer say "As far as I know." And if it is "not by a long shot", this should be easy work for you. Go ahead, make my day.


http://www.specialisedgeo.com.au/contact-us/


Edited by donald perry (02/24/13 11:34 PM)
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#67479 - 02/24/13 11:31 PM Re: Uh Oh... Video - Chipping in NY [Re: TerrieM]
jakedatc Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/18/06
Posts: 241
Originally Posted By: TerrieM
And once again Jakedatc froths at the mouth upon seeing a post by me....

It would be funny if it wasn't a regular behavior out if you. My god, it sounds like you are wetting your pants as you type, so not in control of your own emotions.


and Terrie you are, as usual clueless about what you try to comment on. stick to stickers and tshirt eh? If you've never BEEN bouldering how do you know what happens in various bouldering areas? you see one guy chipping and flip out on a whole community who has nothing to do with him. You don't know me and I wish I didn't know you.

AHEM.. Jardine traverse anyone? yea.. good trad ethics there.. how about drilled hook placements.. or Pin it until there is a hold.. Traddies sneaking in to climb Sky Top.. taking shits on High E?

Rob I've bouldered in the Gunks along the carriage road, Pawtuckaway NH, Milford, MA and Lincoln woods, RI in the past 12 years i've been climbing.

Gunks, i've seen nothing much that differed from normal trad craggers at the gunks.. gear splayed out, dogs, typical carriage road scene. roped or unroped.

Pawtuckaway. Is a pretty natural setting with minimal trails and keeps the beauty of the state park.

Milford,MA parking access is difficult so the areas are pretty untouched. if you aren't looking for it or shown how to get there, probably won't find it.

Lincoln RI is in a very urban area with park road access and a lot of rock in a small area. This concentration and convenience has beat up the areas around popular boulders. For many years we had an Access Fund event for park cleanup that between 20-50 people would attend to collect trash and other trail work. we removed literally tons of trash that was generally not put there by climbers. The most damage to the rock was caused by a NH trad guide who decided to dry tool on established routes and broke many holds on at least 2 problems.


Edited by jakedatc (02/24/13 11:34 PM)

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