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#68706 - 09/04/13 12:26 AM Re: Ranger Presence [Re: Kent]
tallgirlnyc Offline
member

Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 194
Loc: Cold Spring NY
Terrie-Thank you for your response and I was in NO way criticizing the Preserve rangers. I just used to see them more in the 'Nears than I have of late, and if they had passed the encampment we did, complete with a hammock across the trail, and at least three ropes strewn about, and bags of food and general detritus, they would have done something about it.

I think a volunteer coalition with hand outs is a great idea and I am in. Maybe we can collectively draft a document that outlines suggested etiquette and respect.

perhaps we could also include a little humor...like "yes, your dunkin donuts cup, wedged into a tree, is still trash, even if it's not on the ground."



Edited by tallgirlnyc (09/04/13 12:30 AM)

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#68707 - 09/04/13 02:01 AM Re: Ranger Presence [Re: tallgirlnyc]
Mike Rawdon Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/29/99
Posts: 4276
Loc: Poughkeepsie
I believe the GCC is working on a "This is good crag behavior" type pamphlet targeted at folks "moving out of the gym". Funded by an Access Fund grant IIRC.

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#68708 - 09/04/13 11:44 AM Re: Ranger Presence [Re: Mike Rawdon]
talus Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 1259
besides the bush who cares it's always been a outdoor gym. just as long everyone is having fun and no one gets hurt. i was involved in a accident not to long ago and I would take screaming kids, barking dogs peeing on my rope and people shouting beta then having to go through an accident. Especially since I feel in love with the person who fell and feel i was not being a good trad mentor by not shouting up gear beta.
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#68709 - 09/04/13 01:23 PM Re: Ranger Presence [Re: talus]
talus Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 1259
I have no more edit option feel = fell

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#68710 - 09/04/13 02:03 PM Re: Ranger Presence [Re: talus]
TrappDyke Offline
journeyman

Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 80
Paper hand-outs. Really? You want to give the people who litter paper handouts?


Edited by TrappDyke (09/04/13 02:04 PM)

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#68711 - 09/04/13 02:07 PM Re: Ranger Presence [Re: TrappDyke]
SethG Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 710
Loc: NYC
Well of course safety is paramount (and talus I am sorry to hear about this incident you speak of) but we don't have to choose between safety and good crag manners. We can promote both, can't we? I'm not sure fliers are a great idea. Maybe posted signs with tips would be better, we could put them up at the crag and at the area gyms.
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#68713 - 09/04/13 04:43 PM Re: Ranger Presence [Re: SethG]
TerrieM Offline
addict

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 425
Loc: Gunks in Summer, Southwest in ...
It was just an idea... and one which the first step would be someone asking the Preserve if it was something they would want. They may not, for any number of reasons. Also, to be clear, this is not something I have any time or inclination to be part of at this point. My volunteer hours are spoken for and though I do have one area I would like to provide more in, it's not attempting to instill common sense into people at the cliffs.

I did hear about the GCC gym-to-crag thing, which is great. I think that is going to focus from inside of the gyms, which will probably be helpful in the long run.

As for the No Trespassing thing Kent - You have posted the signs. Personally, I think most people see those signs and know what they mean. It seems to me you think the masses ignore them, and from what I hear, MOST people do not ignore them. It tires me to imagine hat you might think the GCC should be posting a sentry at either end of the zone for the person who may come along and ignore the signs. Besides doing that - How would you expect a "Gumby-like" person to know someone is in the No TP Zone without entering that area themselves?

The No TP thing is your baby, whether you like that or not. The GCC HAS asked people to respect the boundary. Perhaps YOU can coordinate a few like-minded people to stand at the boundaries and educate?

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#68714 - 09/04/13 05:41 PM Re: Ranger Presence [Re: TerrieM]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
The No Tresspassing signs at the base of Nears have been repeatedly torn down as have signs along the top of the Bayards and at Millbrook. Many climbers ignore the fact that the land is posted and the landowners don't want climbers or anyone else there.

Both the Preserve and the GCC would be wise to educate their members about climbing on private property and use Access Fund guidelines as an example. Meaning, find out who owns the land you want to climb on. Ask for permission to use the land. If you don't get permission, don't go there and let everyone else know it's closed. And certainly if the land is posted, don't even think about going there.

So the land in the Nears has been closed to legal access for years now, and it will likely be that way for many years to come. It will be posted again soon.

Edited to add:

Just to be clear Terrie, if climbers want to be good neighbors and get along with landowners and have access to private land, then it falls on them to be respectful and inquire about who owns the land they want to climb on, and about the closure status. It isn't the responsibility of landowners to educate climbers about how to behave in a respectful manner.


Edited by Kent (09/04/13 05:48 PM)

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#68715 - 09/04/13 06:28 PM Re: Ranger Presence [Re: Kent]
TerrieM Offline
addict

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 425
Loc: Gunks in Summer, Southwest in ...
Kent - People rip down the signs along Clove Road pretty frequently too. But to repeatedly group every Clove Road Driver into a group and suggest they are liable would be absurd, don't you agree?

It is the same with your situation. It's NOT all climbers who walk the Nears, and even so, both the Preserve AND the GCC have asked people to respect the boundaries of not only that space but others.

Unless you specifically know that the majority of people who climb in the Nears are ignoring the signs, and ripping them down to boot, it's just as absurd as pointing to people who drive down Clove Road and assuming they are stopping to pull signs down.

The Nears is frequently visited by people pulling over at the scenic overlook. I have had some time to observe this in the last few years when I hitch rides into town, as I stand there, and also I used to sit in the overlook in the evenings to get a cel signal and work online a few times a week.

I've seen numbers of people - not climbers nor boulderers - stop at the Overlook and head into either the Nears or walk towards the bridge and group the driveway there.

The graffiti that has recently been found on preserve happens to be on rocks, but most of us agree it is probably not climbers doing it. And if it turned out that they WERE climbers, we surely wouldn't think ALL climbers are tagging the rocks.

Unless you specifically know who it is who is ripping down those signs, it's inappropriate, in my opinion, to lump all climbers into that category. It's likely one or two people, who may or may not be climbers, who rip down the signs.

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#68716 - 09/04/13 06:47 PM Re: Ranger Presence [Re: TerrieM]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
Originally Posted By: TerrieM

Unless you specifically know who it is who is ripping down those signs, it's inappropriate, in my opinion, to lump all climbers into that category. It's likely one or two people, who may or may not be climbers, who rip down the signs.


Over the years, statements have been made here on gunks.com by climbers about their willingness to trespass in the Nears. As well, in recent years a number of climbers have been arrested for trespassing, not in the Nears but elsewhere along the ridge. In my experience climbers, as a user group, have been notorious for trespassing. Overheard at the deli one morning "hey, let's go poach a few climbs at Skytop". Sheesh.

Do you really think people, non-climbers, are going to park at the Overlook and stroll as far as the middle of the Nears and tear down No Trespassing signs? Really? In my experience, most of the tourists who park at the Overlook don't look as though they want to get more than 50' from their cars. What compelling reason do tourists have to walk to the end of the Nears? None.

If one goes and checks out Network Solutions or some other domain name provider they will discover tresspassfund.org, .com, and .net, have all been taken. At some point, trespassfund.org will be a convenient place for private property owners to post up pics of people who are trespassing. Then those here and elsewhere can draw their own conclusions about whether or not those photographed are climbers. Usually packs and ropes and helmets are a pretty good tipoff.


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