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#68731 - 09/05/13 01:13 AM Re: Ranger Presence [Re: Mike Rawdon]
Rickster Offline
old hand

Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Orange Cty, NY
Mike, I am no lawyer but the DEC website points out clearly that "posted" or "no trespassing" property signs must have the name of the land owner on the sign. Of course that helps no one if the sign has been torn down. (BTW, the land is still "posted" for one year from the date of the original posting, even in the absence of the sign.) The website does recommend however, that in the absence of a sign or in seeking permission, one should start knocking on doors seeking out owners.

In the case of climbing along the Nears or any of the other posted areas, one might mention to the home owner that on the advice of their advocate you are seeking them out to discern which properties are posted and/or to ask permission to climb. It would be best I'm sure, if everyone did just that, as Kent has repeatedly suggested these past seasons.

General guidelines for posting of property can be found here among general hunting and fishing guidelines: http://www.dec.ny.gov/regulations/2442.html

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#68735 - 09/05/13 12:38 PM Re: Ranger Presence [Re: Kent]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1036
Loc: The Bayards
Mike, you forgot (intentionally eliminated) the last two sentences of my paraphrasing of Access Fund guidelines for climbing on private property.

Originally Posted By: Kent
If you don't get permission, don't go there and let everyone else know it's closed. And certainly if the land is posted, don't even think about going there.

The landowner in the Nears has already said no. The land has been posted. No means no. If climbers want any chance of that closure being lifted then they would be wise to respect the closure. No respect, no access. It's simple.

As for other private properties, I have said for many years that the GCC, or some other representative of the climbing community, should approach landowners and politely tell them climbers have been climbing on their land for many years, and ask for permission to continue to do so. If the GCC had done that years ago, when I suggested it over and over again for at least a year, it's very possible the Nears closure never would have happened. That they never did so is a glaring failure.

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#68736 - 09/05/13 12:52 PM Re: Ranger Presence [Re: Kent]
tallgirlnyc Offline
member

Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 193
Loc: Cold Spring NY
Kent-

You consistently complain about disregard/disrespect yet in terms of Internet decorum you chronically disrespect other posters by making your issue central to all your posts regardless of thread topic. Perhaps people would take you more seriously if you practiced a little of what you preach. just sayin'

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#68737 - 09/05/13 12:59 PM Re: Ranger Presence [Re: tallgirlnyc]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1036
Loc: The Bayards
I haven't been disrepsectufl at all Dana. You started a thread about educating climbers. Trespassing is perhaps the number one thing they need to be educated about, in my opinion. It's a bit over reaching for you to say you get to decide what climbers should and shouldn't be educated about.

My position is perhaps controversial and so it has elicited some responses and a discussion has ensued and this seems appropriate in that this is the discussion part of this web site.

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#68738 - 09/05/13 01:09 PM Re: Ranger Presence [Re: Kent]
tallgirlnyc Offline
member

Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 193
Loc: Cold Spring NY
I was hoping this discussion was about impact at the preserve and trail etiquette. Your no trespassing section of the nears is clearly at an impasse-until there is some sort of resolution, I think you could let it be for now, don't you? There isn't anything left to be said.

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#68739 - 09/05/13 01:22 PM Re: Ranger Presence [Re: tallgirlnyc]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1036
Loc: The Bayards
The Nears closure is at an impasse no doubt, but adherence to AF guidelines re interacting with private landowners is something climbers, especially climbers at the gunks, should embrace.

Some of the impacts you mentioned in your post on MP are quality of life issues: "noise, barking dogs, hearing at full volume,'there's a total crimper for your left hand-three feet up dude-that's how I send this bitch', etc. etc. ad infinitum". Trespassing is a quality of life issue for private landowners. But in another climberism double standard, educating climbers about that quality of life issue doesn't merit inclusion. Only the quality of life issues most climbers don't like merit inclusion.

This reminds me of the thread about how "environmentally conscientious" some climbers think a climbing lifestyle is, even though climbers, on average, have very large carbon and ecological footprints.

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#68742 - 09/05/13 09:34 PM Re: Ranger Presence [Re: tallgirlnyc]
LoganSchiff Offline
stranger

Registered: 07/06/12
Posts: 7
Completely agree with tallgirlnyc.

Kent - you have valid points but hijacking a thread (yes you are and you know it) and calling climbers hypocrites is not likely to convert anyone to your position, especially those who are currently trespassing.

On the other hand, creating a new thread every once in a while (once a year?) reiterating the basis of the landowner's continued concern and citing examples of newly observed violations might actually educate people.

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#68743 - 09/05/13 09:54 PM Re: Ranger Presence [Re: LoganSchiff]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1036
Loc: The Bayards
It's not up to me to educate people.

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#68744 - 09/05/13 10:26 PM Re: Ranger Presence [Re: Kent]
TerrieM Offline
addict

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 419
Loc: Gunks in Summer, Southwest in ...
Originally Posted By: Kent
You seem to be saying Gumby's would be educating climbers about etiquette. Perhaps you'd like to revise your post.


Are you being intentionally obtuse?

In the original post, I wrote "we COULD create something like the GUMBA bike patrol." It would be fairly clear to most people. This forum isn't a legal arena where we try to wear others down with redundancy and inanity. It's annoying as hell, this BS, and one of the reasons you encounter resistance to people interacting with you, Kent.

I am done with the conversation as it regards to you. Good day.

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#68745 - 09/05/13 11:25 PM Re: Ranger Presence [Re: TerrieM]
TrappDyke Offline
journeyman

Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 80
Kent, ignore the nay sayers. You and Don are bizarrely amusing. I think the webmaster should be paying you for keeping this ship afloat.

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