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#32274 - 08/16/07 03:09 AM Re: Guess the route [Re: talus]
deniso Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/19/06
Posts: 217
Alphonse it is.

Here's another shot of the crux:


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#32275 - 08/16/07 04:05 AM Re: Guess the route [Re: talus]
rg@ofmc Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/25/99
Posts: 2472
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
Who's the climber? Is that a hammer?

The climber is (ahem) me. Photo by Ray Schrag. That is indeed a hammer---the picture was taken in the mid-sixties, and nuts hadn't arrived on our shores yet.

Other historic items: 2" swami, RD's, and knickers.

I think I posted this picture early on in this thread, but who could remember nearly 1900 posts ago...

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#32276 - 08/16/07 04:15 AM Re: Guess the route [Re: rg@ofmc]
deniso Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/19/06
Posts: 217
It's interesting how many differences there are in the those two photos of the same spot (beyond gender, even). I really can't imagine having to hammer in protection. Doesn't that mean you need a no-hands rest to place pro? Considering that, why did some climbers need to be convinced to use nuts when they came along? I would think the "you need only one hand to place it" argument would have been very very convincing.

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#32277 - 08/16/07 09:39 AM Re: Guess the route [Re: talus]
Aya Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/18/04
Posts: 754
Loc: Climbing somewhere
Sweet. Bring back the knicker!
_________________________
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#32282 - 08/16/07 01:01 PM Re: Guess the route [Re: Aya]
BillH Offline
journeyman

Registered: 11/16/06
Posts: 59
Loc: Maryland
We could place pitons with only one hand, while hanging on with the other: unclip the piton from the gear sling with one hand, stuff about half its length into the crack, unholster your hammer with the same hand and pound the sucker while listening for the rising pitch that meant it was solid. This is not to say it was convenient or easy. If you have ever pounded nails over your head, you can understand how tired one's hand and arm got while placing or (especially) removing a piton in a high crack. I recall some particularly painful episodes when my hand cramped around the handle of my hammer while trying to clean pitons from awkward stances. Then my hand was practically useless and (of course) the crux was right above me 'cause my learned leader had placed this hard to get pin right below the move that scared him. Cams in particular are so much easier to get in and out.

I think the reluctance of some to switch to nuts had to do with concern over whether enough solid pacements could be found for them in areas like the Gunks. A nice chromoly angle in a sound crack was a very solid anchor. You didn't hear people talk about building equalized anchors. We just knocked that pin in and clipped to it. As the transition to nuts was occuring, I recall hearing folks saying that nuts were fine in areas with lots of vertical cracks, but that in areas like the Gunks where the cracks are predominantly horizontal pitons were best. Goes to show what we have learned!

Bill
_________________________
Bill Hutchins
Hutbill@comcast.net
http://www.reliclife.blogspot.com

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#32290 - 08/16/07 03:24 PM Re: Guess the route [Re: BillH]
MarcC Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 3532
 Originally Posted By: BillH
I think the reluctance of some to switch to nuts had to do with concern over whether enough solid pacements could be found for them in areas like the Gunks. A nice chromoly angle in a sound crack was a very solid anchor. You didn't hear people talk about building equalized anchors. We just knocked that pin in and clipped to it. As the transition to nuts was occuring, I recall hearing folks saying that nuts were fine in areas with lots of vertical cracks, but that in areas like the Gunks where the cracks are predominantly horizontal pitons were best.

John Stannard mentioned in his Eastern Trade publication at the time that clipping a good pin was "...just like stepping off the ground..." in terms of protection and that with nuts, you needed to be much more careful and knowledgeable about the placements. He also asserted that you needed to place about 30% more pieces, owing to the passive nature and smaller contact area, in order to achieve the same level of protection.

To show what was possible, John published a list of "First Clean Ascents" in one issue of the ET. Seeing routes like Squiggles Direct, MF, and Arrow on that list were eye opening. (Remember, this was years before SLCDs and tri-cams. Many were even done pre Chouinard hexcentrics.)

He also advocated leaving any pins in-place, since the bulk of piton damage to the rock occurs during the removal process. John collected pin donations from climbers who made the transition to nuts and if you left a pin on a climb, he'd give you a "free and cheerful replacement." Thus, many of the popular trade routes had a fair number of resident pins on them. At one time you could do Jackie and Classic with just a rack of draws. That coupled with rap placed pro on Arrow, Pas de Deux, et al actually put the Gunks at the forefront of sport climbing years before the term was coined.
_________________________
- Marc

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#32299 - 08/16/07 04:03 PM Re: Guess the route [Re: MarcC]
Smike Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/01/01
Posts: 3143
Loc: in your backyard
What happened to Guess the route???? Pins this and nuts that...save it for another thread.

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#32300 - 08/16/07 04:23 PM Re: Guess the route [Re: Smike]
Dillbag Offline
old hand

Registered: 05/02/06
Posts: 1130
Loc: "The Town"
Come on now smike... A little drift (especially interesting drift) never hurt anyone...

Plus this guess the routes thread has some serious legs!
_________________________
...anethum graveolens cucumis sativus!

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#32301 - 08/16/07 04:28 PM Re: Guess the route [Re: rg@ofmc]
d-elvis Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/26/00
Posts: 3650
Loc: Central PA
A soon to be wed leader on....?

_________________________
"Marriage Survivor"

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#32302 - 08/16/07 04:56 PM Re: Guess the route [Re: d-elvis]
MarcC Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 3532
 Originally Posted By: d-elvis
A soon to be wed leader on....?

Layback, P2?
_________________________
- Marc

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