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#71436 - 05/22/14 02:01 PM Overlook parking lot
DeliLlama Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/27/04
Posts: 26
Loc: Kerhonkson, NY
Why is the overlook parking lot getting managed by the mohonk Preserve? Why has gardiner sold out to its taxpayers by letting the Preserve manage more land around here? I think the preserve has its hands full already with managing the land they already own and currently seem overextended with the foothills project . The overlook has been under increased regulation in the past decade and now it is completely ruined. Take a drive by and see for yourself how parking will now be limited to approximately 12 cars and how you can only access it from driving down the hill. Instead of allowing cars to pull in and park as the spacing dictated, now cars will be lined up in que along rt. 44/55 waiting for a parking space just like Minnewaska\'s entrances. Was a traffic study done for this project? Watch out for these land grabs and local power plays by big brother it\'s gonna get a lot worse if mike hein gets what he wants with increased tourism. New paltz and gardiner do not need anymore tourism as these towns are swimming with tourists.

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#71437 - 05/22/14 04:15 PM Re: Overlook parking lot [Re: DeliLlama]
oenophore Online   confused
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/01
Posts: 5979
Loc: 212 land
it\'s gonna get a lot worse if mike hein gets what he wants with increased tourism

Might you tell us who he is?
_________________________

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#71438 - 05/22/14 04:44 PM Re: Overlook parking lot [Re: oenophore]
TerrieM Online   content
addict

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 425
Loc: Gunks in Summer, Southwest in ...
Where did you get the idea that project is a Mohonk Preserve?

I recall when the project was announced a few years ago, and a very simple Google search provides one with the information.

From:
http://oracle.newpaltz.edu/shawangunk-mountain-regional-partnership-receives-grant/

\"The Shawangunk Mountains Regional Partnership announced that it was granted a $1 million fund for the upgrade of three scenic overlooks along the Shawangunk Mountains Scenic Byway.

According to a press release provided by Al Wegener, executive director of the Shwawangunk Mountains Regional Partnership, two of the overlooks are located along US44/NY55, one in the town of Gardiner, west of the Mohonk Preserve Visitor Center and the other in the town of Rochester, west of Minnewaska State Park Preserve. The third overlook is in the town of Wawarsing along Rt. 52, north of the entrance to Sam's Point Preserve.

Wegener said through a National Scenic Byways Program, the Federal Highway Administration will be able to fund $800,000 of the project and the remaining $200,000 will be provided by the New York State Department of Transportation.\"

\"Ruined?\" Due to decreased parking? That overlook is supposed to be a 30 minute scenic stop for travelers, not a place for New Paltzers to drive up and to, party with music and beers, throw their fast food containers over the edge,and leave underpants and rubbers in the woods. Or park at to \"hike\" the Nears and trundle crap from the cliff top onto people below.

The place was filthy with litter. I have cleaned it and will testify - GROSS. I have stopped there to get a cel signal and seen some of the visitors in the evening, and I have stood at the west side of it hitching a ride into NP in the day, which is why I can say with some authority what the traffic is.

Many people coming from west DO stop in, stretch their bodies,offer dog a potty break, and then be on their way, so the Overlook DOES see traffic for it\'s intended purpose.

There are two Scenic Overlooks on the west side of ridge for traffic traveling in hat direction. Could it possibly be that the one being referred to in OP had the entryway designed to accommodate the eastern traffic whereas the others are accommodate west-bound traffic? I have also seen people turn into the overlook coming from east who seem to think an oncoming semi-truck can easily hit the breaks to accommodate their \"too f\'ing close\" left turn.

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#71445 - 05/24/14 01:20 PM Re: Overlook parking lot [Re: TerrieM]
DeliLlama Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/27/04
Posts: 26
Loc: Kerhonkson, NY
This weeks local paper:
http://www.newpaltzx.com/2014/05/23/gard...-on-route-4455/
I never said it was a mohonk project. Just that mohonk will be managing it. With that said maybe mohonk will put a booth there with some minion collecting $20 a head to park for 30 minutes.

Yeah \"ruined\"! I say this because of the deceased parking and poorly regulated usage that will come of this. Like the above article stated it is \"largely patronized by Preserve users.\" So with that in mind I wonder how many people actually stop on their way to the Preserve or Minnewaska which is largely why there are traffic problems around here. Funny since these are called \"public parks\" ( mohonk is not a public park it\'s private land) and there is a lack of parking. That\'s humor :-)

Terri how is it that if a majority of Preserve members use the parking lot it is such a GROSS mess? Are New Paltzers really to blame? Do you have proof to support your claim? Will the Preserve provide dog poop bags since you suggest breaking your dog there ? And will the Preserve keep it stocked so people just don\'t leave their poop? Do you think the Preserve will keep up on the trash receptacles which invite people to throw things away which would normally remain in their vehicle? Trundling crap off the top of the Cliff sounds like a Preserve issue unrelated to the overlook and relevant to trespassers and poor management resulting in unsecured land that people are abusing.

So if I go to the overlook at night this new parking area with it\'s reduced capacity for parking should be free of loud music, beer drinking, no panty, condom wearing NewPalters? And the \"trundling\" stuff off the cliff will end? Right? Or maybe you should make yourself useful and sleep there in you camper so you can keep the New Paltzers away and mohonk will pay you.

And the traffic around here is another major problem. But maybe Mohonk will manage the traffic issues as well since they will be contributing to it with the new campground and foothills project. Maybe a full SEQRA should have been done for the campground and maybe the local gov\'t will pull their heads out of the sand for the testimonial gateway. This area is getting abused all for a non-profit to make a lot of profit.

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#71446 - 05/24/14 09:48 PM Re: Overlook parking lot [Re: DeliLlama]
TerrieM Online   content
addict

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 425
Loc: Gunks in Summer, Southwest in ...
Thanks for the link.

I read this differently, apparently. Gardiner couldnot accept the grant because theydidn\'t have \"budget or personnel available to devote to such tasks as emptying trash containers and weeding flowerbeds\" and so MP steps up and offers, and that makes you upset? I don\'t see watering pants and emptying trash as \"managing.\"

As for the article saying \"largely used by MP visitors,\" I have to wonder if that is an accurate statement.

re: \"Are New Paltzers really to blame? Do you have proof to support your claim? Will the Preserve provide dog poop bags since you suggest breaking your dog there ?\"

Who is to blame is the person who throws their trash over the side. Personally, I have seen people come up the hairpin pull in,eat fast food and throw the trash on the ground. The containers tend to be McD, Dunkin Donuts, and pizzza containers, as well as beer cans.

As for doggies getting their breaks there - what I have seen is usually a potty stop. A dog will get out and pee, as dogs will, on a post,rock or shrub as others have before them. Most dogs don\'t poop so immediately near a vehicle unless it is an \"emergency.\" Even then they will usually try to get to an \"appropriate, in a dog\'s mind, space. Dog\'s rarely consider the center of an asphalt lot as an optimal poop place.

You might also be surprised to that many dog-owning travelers are aware their dog will be relieving themselves in a public to semi-public spot, and come prepared. Of course, many people are not considerate of others, but I would like to believe those are not the majority(just as the majority of people who stop at the Overlook do NOT throw garbage over the edge, and put their panties back on when they\'ve finished their quickie).


I have to say, it seems to me that you are rather overzealous in your rant(s). It baffles me that someone would read about the MP offering what is tantamount to a community service as somehow trying to wrangle control over the use of that space. You\'re certainly entitled to your opinion, but it seems a little crazy to me.

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#71447 - 05/25/14 01:22 AM Re: Overlook parking lot [Re: TerrieM]
donald perry Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 1530
Loc: New Jersey
I just hope they put some signs about throwing rocks.
_________________________
The Mohonk Mountain House and the Mohonk Preserve have done a great job protecting the environment thus far, but ... it's all down hill from here http://youtu.be/9AU8fMo8v4k.

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#71489 - 06/03/14 08:05 PM Re: Overlook parking lot [Re: TerrieM]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
The Shawangunk Mountains Regional Partnership. Al Wegener, Executive Director.

Who pays Al Wegener? Who paid for this partnership\'s website? Hmmmmmmmm.........

It\'s pretty easy to guess the answer to those two questions.

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#71494 - 06/04/14 11:13 AM Re: Overlook parking lot [Re: Kent]
Kent Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: The Bayards
Or rather it\'s pretty obvious.

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#71540 - 06/11/14 05:24 PM Re: Overlook parking lot [Re: TerrieM]
DeliLlama Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/27/04
Posts: 26
Loc: Kerhonkson, NY
I\'m not rating nor am I upset that Mohonk stepped up to \"empty out trash...and weeding flowerbeds,\" just shocked! Since when does Mohonk have the staff or any experience weeding flower beds. They don\'t have one single manicured flower bed on their entire property! Last I heard (which was just yesterday) they can\'t even man the fee collection booth because everyone they hire for $8 an hour quits after 2 days. Are you volunteering to do this for them?

The only one I see that is \"overzealous\" is the Mohonk Preserve trying to take control over more land (ie. the overlook) without a well thought out plan on how they will do it. Kind of like Waterworks in Rosendale (which almost no one can visit without an appointment or crash pad), traffic patterns and concern for safety for the new campground patrons crossing RT.299, and the Gateway Testimonial Area where they have ignored their neighbors concerns about traffic and increased tourism ruining the areas rural feel and creating more of a hassle to live around here. Lets not forget increased property taxes as a result of parks being installed/developed and the tax dollars that are used, to attract more visitors/money, there by benefiting the Preserves business model only, without paying any taxes themselves. Since you live for free in a cabin without a Certificate of Occupancy you probably do not think about these things because you, like them, want things for free. This is another topic well worth conversation in this forum and I will start a new thread as soon as I get a chance.

The new overlook has 10 parking spaces with 3 of them being handicapped. This has greatly reduced the scenic resource that has been available to the public for the last 100 years. It will also have granite curbing and adornments as well as no way to water the flowerbeds you talk about. Local taxpayers paid for this but we still have potholes in our roads that make it feel like we are driving in Iraq. Who will weed the beds? Water the flowers? Clean the trash? All the $8/hour workers that keep quitting? Also it has the potential for traffic queing up on Rt. 44/55 thereby creating more traffic congestion. It is a big waste of taxpayers money and benefits no one except the \"Preserve\" since people have less options for free \"30 Minute\" parking and it now requires them to pay the the \"Preserve\" too much money to park their vehicle to enjoy their scenic view and stretch their legs.

With all this development going on I see it is becoming harder and harder to view this place as a legitimate non-profit \"Preserve\" and not a corporation taking over the local townships and developing tourism for their self serving benefit. I also want to quote Susan Zimit a couple weeks ago saying herself that ,\"there are more for sale signs around here than flowers blooming.\" Maybe you can finally buy your dream home and contribute to the tax base instead of being a freeloader.

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#71543 - 06/12/14 03:17 PM Re: Overlook parking lot [Re: DeliLlama]
TerrieM Online   content
addict

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 425
Loc: Gunks in Summer, Southwest in ...
If it looks like a rant, reads like a rant, and rants like a rant.....it\\\'s a rant.

I haven\\\'t spoken to anyone about the Overlook, so cannot provide you with any definitive answers. I am solely stating my personal viewpoint based on things I have seen over the years.

There are a number of volunteers at the MP who have extensive gardening experience. Perhaps those people will be interested in working on the Overlook. As for myself, I might be interested in helping out and when the times comes, I will see what is involved.

But I suggest that, if you are actually interested in getting answers and not simply continuing to conflate misinformation, that you contact the preserve and ask the question directly.

As for my caretaker situation, I actually do a fair amount in return for the residence(which has been reviewed by the appropriate government authority and is not in conflict with any regulations or laws). Again, if you would like to have the actual facts, feel free to email me directly(I would expect you to identify yourself by name if you do), or stop by and talk to me. Otherwise, all you are doing is acting out with dramatics, which becomes tiring after so long.

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