Shout Box

Who's Online
1 registered (1 invisible), 8 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#9565 - 08/22/03 08:59 PM Re: Birdland-pro between 2nd and 3rd pin? [Re: LesterLeBlanc]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Lester,
For me part of climbing is finding my limits and learning how to push through them. I agree the move isn't that hard...as I mentioned before I did it as a second last year w/o a problem. As a "newish" leader, I figured there were others who could give me some advice on this particular gear placement. I have fallen on my gear before but not on a less than bomber peice. I want to try it again and I was looking for what others do to protect it. I was able to get a nut in there, but I wouldn't call it bomber. By the time I got it placed I was a bit tired, actually my feet were tired not my arms (Birdland is not exactly a hangtime issue so the gym probably wouldn't do anything to help me up it). For me that move requires a left foot placement on a very small nub in order to step your right foot up on that flake and after 10 min of gear fiddling I had that Elvis thing going on with my foot.
Regarding needing to hone my leading skills, as a "newish" leader, I am always trying to hone my leading skills. That's one reason I got on this climb. It isn't a typical Gunks route. I led Bonnie's Roof with no problem and Ant's line with a fall at the crux the first time. Birdland is a less strenuous and more technical route with some thin pro compared to those routes. I have found that when breaking through grades it helps if you get on different types of climbs that help you learn new skills. By the way, I did the whole down climbing go back up thing several times. In fact I practically down climbed the whole route (which probably improved my skills). The part I missed was getting a piece of gear that "I" thought was bomber.
Finally, for someone who posts so much, I'm surprised you admonish someone in part telling them a move isn't hard. It might not be hard to you and thousands of others...but it's wicked hard for many others. For me, the move was a lot harder after trying to get gear for 10 minutes then it was when I followed it. What would help me is to hear how you placed that nut, if you remember and care to share. Your reply of go to the gym doesn't help me lead Birdland.

Top
#9566 - 08/23/03 11:08 AM Re: Birdland-pro between 2nd and 3rd pin?
LesterLeBlanc Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 1915
Loc: Los Angeles
Your reply of go to the gym doesn't help me lead Birdland.

Just some thoughts. Had no intention of disparaging your leading skills. I thought your decision to back off the route when you didn't feel confident about the gear was a good one. That's an important leading skill to have. Took me a near groundfall to learn it.

I didn't think by responding that I was under any obligation to help you lead Birdland. I was just offering my opinions. If you found them irritating, I apologize. If you found them irrelevant, you're obviously free to disregard them.

That said, if I could have remembered the exact piece I used to use, I would have told you.


Top
#9567 - 08/23/03 12:50 PM Re: Birdland-pro between 2nd and 3rd pin?
yorick Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 1041
Loc: hamlet\'s hand
i think birdland is a perfect route to be pushing your leading limit on: it's a downrated 9 that for years had been many folks intro to the grade...that sequence is fairly technical, especially if you're short, and can require just the sort of up & down gear placing lester has mentioned that you won't get on easier climbs, while trusting a left toe to one of those "i can't believe that's gonna stick" smears...whatever combination of pro you can get there - i go yellow metolius with a green alien placed above it - can be very solid...lots to suss out and retain from this one...

these are some of the reasons it used to be such a perfect gateway into gunks 9's, because it sure was for me, and here's why...

in my 4th season of climbing ('85), i was following a posse of buddies - a group of dudes who'd all begun climbing together the same season back in '81- up 10's, topping 11's, but was lagging behind them on lead, marginally working into 8's...could not get my head together on lead, partly because i wouldn't trust my gear placements...on one of those sublime days when the gods tapped me on the forehead, i'd hooked up with my resident gunks hero, the mighty, mighty "jersey" jeff gruenberg, whom after we'd done some bouldering, suggested we go do a route...this, for me, was like being asked to play catch with willie mays...

"choose a grade,'" jeffs says...
i say, "how about a 9?"...
"birdland," says jeff, "ever do birdland?"...
i shake my head "no"...
we walk over to the base, i start flaking out the rope, jeff asks for my rack, and when i pull it out and hand it to him, he looks over my one set of wired rocks, my double set of tri-cams, and my four, count 'em, four friends, and beams like a proud poppa, "now there's a gunks rack!" - then looks at me and asks, "which pitch do you wanna lead?"...
i blanched, "never led a 9," and jeff says (because he had seen me tr many an afternoon down at watchung), "aw, you can lead this, it's a clip-up (the pin protected the crux), and, you've got the best belayer in the gunks for a partner"...

the quesy stomach and spinning head i always got right before leading never happened - the spell broke - and i on-sighted birdland...within a week i'd led never-never-land clean first try (cuz i'd followed it and my friends said that was next after birdland), jumped right over the 8's and started in on the 9's without taking a leader fall, before i began logging air-time on every 10 i tried but criss-cross, my only 10 on-sight that season...

so keep at it, lyonsj 1, you could be on the verge of a breakthrough...
_________________________
Shongum ain\'t Indian,
it\'s Shawank-unk.

Top
#9568 - 08/25/03 01:03 AM Re: Birdland-pro between 2nd and 3rd pin? [Re: yorick]
CrackBoy Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 2435
Loc: Republic of Davis
i could have sworn there is is either a blue alien or a tricam placement out right of the pin or right before the pin, but it has been a while
_________________________
Just Call me Mr. Enthusiasm

Top
#9569 - 08/25/03 03:16 AM Re: Birdland-pro between 2nd and 3rd pin? [Re: CrackBoy]
tokyo bill Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 793
Loc: Tokyo
Based on beta from Mike Rawdon I got a solid yellow TCU in the broken pin slot. He also mentioned nutting the crack just above, but I couldn't get myself up high enough to reach it without actually commiting to the move. (Midget penalty. )

The TCU looked good, so I just went ahead. Didn't occur to me to try to stack another cam in the same slot with the Metolius, but an alien might have gone. Hmmm....

Great pitch.

Top
#9570 - 08/25/03 09:08 PM Re: Birdland-pro between 2nd and 3rd pin? [Re: tokyo bill]
Coppertone Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/17/00
Posts: 1055
Loc: Newtown, CT
I had not done Birdland in years until a few weeks ago and I found the that the yellow alien fits very nicely where the pin is broken off. I does not look like it would, but it is a very good placement. I always liked the second pitch of that climb much more than the first pitch. The second pitch rarely gets climbed, but is definitley worth the effort.

Top
#9571 - 09/01/03 12:13 PM n'ain'ts... [Re: Coppertone]
yorick Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 1041
Loc: hamlet\'s hand
just to chew a little over mine and lester's point about birdland being a down-rated 5.9, i've since learned from dw that birdland's 5.9 rating in the red guide was something of a gaff, the only time it ever appeared as a 9...

weird, but i don't remember having heard any controversy about this in the early-mid '80's (indeed, it seems i've been inured to an entire page of gunks' history), and those of us cutting our teeth on lead during that time certainly had the mind-set that birdland, absurdland, groovy, and bonnie's were the entry-level routes into the grade...

small wonder that all of them have experienced rating flip-flop over the years...maybe we can establish a new grade for these 'tweeners: neights, or how about neighnts, as in n'ain'ts - not an 8, but ain't a 9...
_________________________
Shongum ain\'t Indian,
it\'s Shawank-unk.

Top
#9572 - 09/01/03 12:29 PM Re: n'ain'ts... [Re: yorick]
Mike Rawdon Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/29/99
Posts: 4276
Loc: Poughkeepsie
Quote:

i've since learned from dw that birdland's 5.9 rating in the red guide was something of a gaff, the only time it ever appeared as a 9...




Dick DuMais also gave it a nine in his book.

Maybe we should call it "nine minus"??

Top
#9573 - 09/01/03 12:35 PM Re: n'ain'ts... [Re: Mike Rawdon]
yorick Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 1041
Loc: hamlet\'s hand
mike, i lost my copy...

but i seem to remember all kinds of odd ratings in that one...
_________________________
Shongum ain\'t Indian,
it\'s Shawank-unk.

Top
#9574 - 09/02/03 12:28 AM Re: n'ain'ts... [Re: yorick]
dalguard Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1515
Loc: CT
8+ is the correct rating as everyone knows that 8+ is harder than 9-. 8+ means "watch out - this was rated back when 9 meant 10." 9- means "Oooh, climbing is hard. Why is this so hard? I should get extra points."

Top
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >


Moderator:  Mike Rawdon, Steven Cherry 
Sponsored