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#9612 - 08/26/03 05:41 PM Broken Sling Anchors!
paborden Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 366
Loc: On the road...
Yesterday I was doing the high traverse variation of Broken Sling (right under the flaring offwidth on the start of the second pitch, by the rap anchors). My partner was belaying from an anchor I had set below and, though I backed it up, I took a quick look at the shiny new pins in the rap anchor, thought "oh that MUST be good", clipped it, and continued past. When my partner was cleaning he grabbed the right most sling and barely put body weight on the thing when the pin it was attached to POPPED RIGHT OUT! Needless to say, we walked off.

This should really drive home the necessary practice of closely inspecting all those anchors we are about to trust our life to. Many people I talked to yesterday afternoon made offhand comments like "sh**t, I rapped off that two days ago." Now, I doubt the anchor would have totally failed (but who knows?) but, even if pins look new as these did, they need to be checked. And, somehow I don't think the state of this anchor deterioated in just the last two days...

It may be that the pin was only good for downward pull (don't know if my partner put outward force on the thing...) but, nonetheless, the anchor will need to be fixed. Hopefully, the next party will see the dangling piton (it'll be hard to miss) and will do something about it or avoid it altogether.

To add a quick question to the above jumble: what should one do when encountered with such a situation? I had thought about rapping down to see if I could stabilize the anchor but, since I didn't have anything to hammer the pin in with, I figured a dangling (read: obvious, don't use me) pin was better than a poorly hammered (at most, death; at least, a big surprise) but superficially inocuous one.

And hey, I guess there's the whole humor of having a broken anchor on a route called broken sling

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#9613 - 08/27/03 12:31 PM Re: Broken Sling Anchors! [Re: paborden]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:

This should really drive home the necessary practice of closely inspecting all those anchors we are about to trust our life to




don't you think climbers should inspect the anchors themselves? place a backup on the anchor. what would you do if there was no fixed anchor. and i thought traditional climbers climb at the gunks.

Maybe you should report the anchor to the preserve.

cheers

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#9614 - 08/27/03 02:44 PM Re: Broken Sling Anchors!
MarcC Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 3532
Quote:

Quote:

This should really drive home the necessary practice of closely inspecting all those anchors we are about to trust our life to




don't you think climbers should inspect the anchors themselves? place a backup on the anchor.




Huh? That's exactly what paborden was saying. Where was it ever implied in the original post that someone other than climbers (the Preserve?) should be doing the inspection?
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#9615 - 08/27/03 07:21 PM Re: Broken Sling Anchors! [Re: MarcC]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Not to take away from the point of this post, but there shouldn't even be anchors on broken sling. Both pitches are quality, and it is very close to the walk off. It is funny there are rap stations like that in the gunks.

Toby

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#9616 - 08/27/03 07:51 PM Re: Broken Sling Anchors! [Re: paborden]
paborden Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 366
Loc: On the road...
Yeah, I'd agree that the anchors were a bit unnesscary--they're clearly only for rapping and between the anchors nearby on alphonse and the walkoff, they're quite pointless.

Anyway, I was never implying that the preserve should be in charge of inspecting these anchors--that would be one hell of a job with all the random slinged trees strewn about. I was trying to point out that many climbers I talked to yesterday had rapped off those anchors recently...clearly without checking them sufficently.

As for:
>don't you think climbers should inspect the anchors >themselves? place a backup on the anchor. what >would you do if there was no fixed anchor.

First, I only clipped that anchor as I passed and wasn't relying on it exclusively and, nevertheless, I also backed
it up. If there was no anchor, I would have 1) walked off or 2) rapped off alphonse.

>and i thought traditional climbers climb at the gunks.

Is this some sort of attempt at humor? Not to be rude, but frankly, I really don't see your point. Hopefully this post will explain things further if they were unclear.

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#9617 - 08/27/03 08:33 PM Re: Broken Sling Anchors! [Re: paborden]
Anonymous
Unregistered


my point is that the gunks is a traditional climbing area (must i give you a definition of what a traditional climb is). it's not a climbing gym or a sport crag where all the anchors are nicey nice sorry i'm being a dick.

anyway thank you for letting us know about the anchor.


Edited by hardgrit2 (08/27/03 08:40 PM)

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#9618 - 08/27/03 08:38 PM Re: Broken Sling Anchors! [Re: paborden]
dalguard Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1515
Loc: CT
I don't know if the anchor is there for rapping. I don't think I've ever seen anyone rap off Broken Sling. TR it from the anchor, yes, people do that. Maybe it's a 50M thing?

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#9619 - 08/27/03 08:55 PM Re: Broken Sling Anchors! [Re: dalguard]
Mike Rawdon Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/29/99
Posts: 4276
Loc: Poughkeepsie
Quote:

I don't know if the anchor is there for rapping. I don't think I've ever seen anyone rap off Broken Sling. TR it from the anchor, yes, people do that. Maybe it's a 50M thing?




IME most folks only do the first pitch, then they TR, then they rap or lower off the anchor.

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#9620 - 08/27/03 09:40 PM Re: Broken Sling Anchors! [Re: Mike Rawdon]
RangerRob Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 3765
Loc: Ulster County, NY
I may be wrong, but let me venture a reason why there is an anchor there. Many old timers have told me that they use to climb with 40 meter ropes back in the day, which is why some of the climbs around here have absurdly short pitches. They have just carried over. I don't believe you can do Broken sling ground to top with a 40 meter rope, can you?

RR

P.S. Another good examlpe of this is Alphonse in three pitches????? How about Modern Times in four pitches?????

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#9621 - 08/27/03 10:35 PM Re: Broken Sling Anchors! [Re: RangerRob]
MarcC Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 3532
Quote:

I may be wrong, but let me venture a reason why there is an anchor there. Many old timers have told me that they use to climb with 40 meter ropes back in the day, which is why some of the climbs around here have absurdly short pitches. They have just carried over. I don't believe you can do Broken sling ground to top with a 40 meter rope, can you?

RR

P.S. Another good examlpe of this is Alphonse in three pitches????? How about Modern Times in four pitches?????




With the way Broken Sling wanders - 2 major traverses left and 2 to the right over the entire route - I'm not sure I'd want to do it ground to top in one pitch! In any case, from the early 70's onward for many years, the standard length was 150' (~45m), but I knew many folks who used 120'. IIRC, maybe even the Gran and 72 Williams guides said that often a 120 was adequate. The rationale was that there were so many routes with multiple traverses that rope drag would be the limiting factor. Couple that with the multitude of good belay ledges and it became easy to do shorter pitches. It also enabled you to carry less of a rack, and a shorter rope is a lighter rope.

I was never quite sure why the fixed anchor sprouted on Broken Sling.
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#9622 - 08/28/03 04:21 AM Re: Broken Sling Anchors! [Re: MarcC]
pedestrian Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 2244
Loc: a heavily fortified bunker!
Quote:

I was never quite sure why the fixed anchor sprouted on Broken Sling.




Spontaneous generation - just like fruit flies on a banana, of course.

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#9623 - 08/30/03 02:22 AM Re: Broken Sling Anchors! [Re: Mike Rawdon]
LesterLeBlanc Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 1916
Loc: Los Angeles
IME most folks only do the first pitch, then they TR, then they rap or lower off the anchor.


That's just wrong. I disagree with RG about stuff like some of the first pitch climbing at the Mac Wall (the Williams guide indicates that one or two of those routes don't even have second ptiches), but TRing P1 of Broken Sling? Come on!

Back in my day, I don't remember a rap anchor there. The initial bouldery crux is one thing, but it's the dicey, brilliant traverse that the route is all about.


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#9624 - 08/30/03 02:44 AM Re: Broken Sling Anchors! [Re: LesterLeBlanc]
rg@ofmc Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/25/99
Posts: 2472
Loc: Poughkeepsie, NY
I'm not sure what Lester and I disagree about on the Mac Wall. I have proposed, both here and directly to the Preserve Anchor committee, that certain routes be designated as one-pitch routes, and there are some obvious choices on the Mac Wall. There are also some multipitch routes that have been turned into one-pitch routes by rap anchors; perhaps that is where we disagree. I think these routes should be restored to multipitch status by eliminating the rap anchors.

Originally, all the Mac Wall routes went at least as far as the Three Pines GT Ledge. It was customary to climb to that ledge, unrope, and solo down Three Pines. After rap anchors went in on the truly one-pitch routes, Dick chose not to mention the unremarkable climbing up to the GT ledge.

As for Broken Sling, as Lester says, there never used to be a rap anchor at the end of the first pitch, so the anchor installed there is in violation of the Preserve's 1987 regulations on no new fixed anchors, and is not one of the legacy anchors that climbers are entitled to maintain. This anchor should be removed and should stay removed. Apparently, it seems to be removing itself.

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#9625 - 08/31/03 01:45 AM Re: Broken Sling Anchors! [Re: rg@ofmc]
LesterLeBlanc Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 1916
Loc: Los Angeles
RG:

I don't think we disagree that much on the Mac Wall topic. And I think our differences are more philosphical than practical. My view is that the string of great 5.10s to the right of MF (Try Again to Tough Shift) have classic first pitches and nothing too recommendable after that. I think 2-3 rap anchors are reasonable and adequate for this area. I also think that while more people should invest the time and effort in doing both pitches of MF, it's not a bad thing to have a rap anchor at the top of P1. Birdie Party, Interstice, Mother's Day Party and MF all share the same belay. So many people climb P1 of these routes (and top-rope them) that it makes sense (IMO) to have a dedicated rap anchor that allows people to move off the belay and out of the way of others. (This anchor should not be used for top-roping and belaying on P2s.) I can see your point-of-view that having a rap anchor there merely encourages/allows climbers to clog up the area by just leading and top-roping P1s, but I'm more of the mind to allow people to hit these P1s, rap and move on. I also think there should be a rap anchor at the top of Higher Stannard's P1. Basically, I'm for rap anchors at the top of P1s in areas that have a high concentration of popular climbs. However, I also think that there are very few areas in the Gunks that warrant these types of anchors. I also think that rap anchors at the top of the cliffs should be fairly limited.

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#9626 - 08/31/03 03:21 AM Re: Broken Sling Anchors! [Re: LesterLeBlanc]
CrackBoy Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 2435
Loc: Republic of Davis
as far as MF, they should remove the anchors from where they are and move them up like 20-25 feet once you pull the second pitch roof, it is much to it that would make it one of the best single pitches in the trapps
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#9627 - 09/01/03 03:28 AM Re: Broken Sling Anchors! [Re: paborden]
paborden Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 366
Loc: On the road...
With the hopes of beating the labor day circus and dealing with the anchor before it became a problem I cut what remained of it off this weekend. Hope that doesn't offend anyone, but it was extraneous to begin with.

On another note, I did a new (for me) variation of the 2nd pitch through the flaring/offwidth roof crack. However, after pulling through and traversing left a little ways, instead of continuing left almost to join Disneyland as Swain and Williams suggest, I looped back right through the next roof and this seemed MUCH harder (than the .9+ that variation is normally rated at). Anyone know what the story with that is?

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#9628 - 09/02/03 08:03 PM Re: Broken Sling Anchors! [Re: paborden]
Anonymous
Unregistered


upside down pitons = no no

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