by yourself be careful

Posted by: talus

by yourself be careful - 03/06/06 02:10 PM

Saturday evening i went up to watch the sunset by myself in skytop tower. on my way back to duck pond i came across tracks of a large cat. this is my second encounter of a large cat in this area and feel 100% sure it is a mountain lion/ cougar.

My experience with tracking is minimal but i was raised in hunting family and have been hunting since the age of 12 and hunted from NJ all the way to Elk hunting in Wyoming. so i know a little about different animal tracks.

So when walking down from skytop at 7:30 pm I came across the cat tracks which were fresh tracks. Upon seeing these tracks i took pictures to have proof and confirm what type of tracks i was seeing. Yesterday (sunday) i showed 5 people the pictures all with outdoor hunting experience and 2 of them have been to colorado hunting for cougars. Everyone agreed that this was from a large wild cat.

i wouldn't be real concerned if i just came across the tracks. but when i walking down i had the feeling i was being stalked before i came across the tracks.

The location of the tracks was on Kleine kill path. this is a popular area for people to go hiking and jogging so be careful and travel in numbers.
Posted by: Smike

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/06/06 02:20 PM

i showed 5 people the pictures
Care to show the other 20 people that still read this site?
Posted by: talus

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/06/06 02:38 PM

sure, i'll save the photos and show you, btw what you know about animal tracks? pm me your cell phone # if you have text message w/ photos. i would like to find someone associated w/ the DEC
Posted by: talus

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/06/06 02:59 PM

also if anyone knows how to transfer pics from cell phone (verizon) to email that would be helpful.
thanks
Posted by: Smike

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/06/06 03:46 PM

I don't know from looking myself, but I have some that might. I can also hang some meat in my backyard on the clothes line and have RangerRob come over and camp out in my kitchen with his 22. I think I might just have enough beer to keep him stationed for about 5 days. (If rationed well)
Posted by: crackers

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/06/06 03:51 PM

won't work.

you need a small child playing with the steak for maximum effectiveness, and a smoker going down the block. Or a small quiet meaty looking dog...

two kids got nabbed when i lived in missoula. never let your kids play outside by the mountain by themselves at twilight. i would have thought it was a no-brainer. At the time, it was barely front page news in the local paper.

I personally think it would be cool to have big cats back in new york.
Posted by: learningtolead

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/06/06 03:53 PM

You can send them to your email from your phone. On my phone what you do is go to the saved picture and choose the menu option that says send in email message but each phone is a bit different. Post them here if you can. I don't know about animal tracks but I'm curious to see them.
Posted by: irisharehere

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/06/06 04:02 PM

My wife's fur-ball doggie is quite meaty looking, I think she'd make great bait..........
Posted by: Kevin

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/06/06 04:03 PM

I have come across some large wild cat prints this past winter over in the NW corner of CT near the CT/MA/NY border area near the AT. Also some coyotes and there have been some bear tracks spotted there recently as well. I am not sure how much hibrnating Yogi and Boo Boo have done this winter, but I am sure they will be out and about soon.

They; the cats, seem to be roaming further and further south and/or just coming back to their own territory. Something to keep an eye out for, not for the 'Oooo Cool' factor, but the safety factor. I hope you reported it to the Preserve, they would probably want to know something like that.
Posted by: d-elvis

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/06/06 04:15 PM

I fought a puma once...but that is a thread drift from the skills thread
Posted by: D75

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/06/06 04:41 PM

My bet - Large dog is the most likely match if / when the photo(s) are posted.
Posted by: Terrie

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/06/06 05:35 PM

If you were on preserve land, you shoul definitley notify the preserve. They will probably be interested to study the area.

And definitely try to post the pictures here. I know nothing about tracks, but I would like to see the cougar tracks. I also am glad to see more evidence that there are wild cats back up in the area. Very cool.


*Thread Drift Alert*

When I was in JTree, I thought I hear a wild cat outside rummaging, and my guides told me that, though there weren't a lot of them, they were definitely out there. They said to wake them up if I heard it again. Well - the next night - I heard it!!! And, some pots and pans being banged around too! I was so scared....I whispered over to the next tent - "Marty! Marty!!!"(yes, our own Marty Molitorus) but all I got back was "zzzzzzssssnnnnooooorrrrrrreeeeeeee....zzzzzz." So, I fell back asleep.

A few days later - I heard the mountain lion again - this time, in BROAD daylight!!!

"GROWCCCHWWXXXXXOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWL"

Yes - really!

It sounded like it was coming RIGHT on the road in front of my campsite!

So, I turned and looked - and THERE HE WAS!!!!

But, it wan't a mountain lion after all. It was a dirtbag camper from down the way. With a very odd throat clearing problem.

Posted by: GeeVee

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/06/06 05:35 PM

I think she'd make great bait..........

Your wife or the dog?

Posted by: fallenglass

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/06/06 08:04 PM

my wife and i saw a bobcat very cose to our campsite in jtree once -- it stared at us for like a whole minute -- then it slowly turned around and with a swoosh of its tail it was gone ...

i recall an article in the times a year or two ago about some guys in the adirondaks who were convinced that there were mountain lions up there -- but the dec and other authorities pooh-poohed the idea and said that it was impossible.
Posted by: Timbo

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/06/06 08:19 PM

Quote:



i recall an article in the times a year or two ago about some guys in the adirondaks who were convinced that there were mountain lions up there -- but the dec and other authorities pooh-poohed the idea and said that it was impossible.




Which is exactly what the local officials in Delaware said for several years, until one got videotaped. Then they said it was just a stray that had escaped from captivity.

About 10 years and numerous verified sightings later they still claim there is no native population. Number and locations of verified sightings and local geography might suggest otherwise.

TS
Posted by: talus

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/06/06 08:45 PM

d75 not even close to a dog print. i know better

if you ever heard a mountain lion or bob cat it's a very scary sound. sounds like a women screaming.

the thing about big cats it's very rare to see them out in the wild. when i worked in the vet lab out in wyoming i was lucky to see a mountain lion there close up.
Posted by: ranger hank

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/06/06 09:17 PM

-Hi-
I work as a ranger at the Preserve-very interested in your photos if you would like to share them-can definately get them IDd' as well by wildlife folks at DEC call me at the Preserve if you like-BTW this would not be the first Mt. lion on the ridge in modern times.
-hank alicandri-
Posted by: Mike Rawdon

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/06/06 10:12 PM

Quote:

my wife and i saw a bobcat very cose to our campsite in jtree once -- it stared at us for like a whole minute -- then it slowly turned around and with a swoosh of its tail it was gone ...




Bobcats don't really have enough tail to "swoosh".

As for the gov't denying the cats' return, of course they will deny it. To do otherwise would put the burgeoning population at great risk from poachers. There have been occasional (always unconfirmed) mt lion sightings in the ADKs for 30 yr or more.
Posted by: dalguard

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/06/06 10:28 PM

So what's a confirmed mountain lion sighting? Where the cat comes out afterwards and says, "yeah, you got me"?
Posted by: Mike Rawdon

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/06/06 10:57 PM

Quote:

So what's a confirmed mountain lion sighting? Where the cat comes out afterwards and says, "yeah, you got me"?




I think it goes by degrees;
Third degree - photograph
Second degree - physical evidence (fur, scat)
First degree - a body
Posted by: D75

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/07/06 04:08 AM

LOL - I am sure you do... My bet still stands. Especially since you have not yet posted even a picture of a track

I am with Mike on this...
Posted by: fallenglass

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/07/06 01:05 PM

Bobcats don't really have enough tail to "swoosh".

oh come on man, i was going for poetry! i do remember a tail though ...
Posted by: talus

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/07/06 01:36 PM

yeah like you will be able to tell D75. as of right your little mind is already made up. what do you want to bet?
Posted by: Daniel

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/07/06 02:50 PM

I think it goes by degrees;
Third degree - photograph
Second degree - physical evidence (fur, scat)
First degree - a body


Maybe that explains these dreams I've been having of Devil's Tower . . .
Posted by: dalguard

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/07/06 04:03 PM

Quote:

First degree - a body


So the only confirmed mountian lion is a dead mountain lion?
Posted by: quanto_the_mad

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/07/06 04:16 PM

No, the body itself isn't evidence enough (unless it's something like bigfoot whose very existence is questioned). If you have a dead mtn lion's body, that's all you have, a dead body. It could have escaped from a zoo, could have been smuggled from out west, could be just a stray that got lost and wandered in.

If they found evidence of a pair of cats, then that's significant because that could mean a breeding population has returned to the area.
Posted by: talus

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/07/06 08:12 PM

email reply from John Thompson a Natural Resources Specialist at the mohonk preserve said the prints look like a coyote.

there it is d
Posted by: timh

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/07/06 10:33 PM

Now that's one way to deal with undisciplined dogs at the cliffs.
Posted by: Mike Rawdon

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/08/06 01:25 AM

While we're on the subject, are there wolves in the area? I saw what looked like one in the headlights near Gardiner. It was not a coyote, I know that. It may have been a domestic dog but I'm telling you, it looked like a wolf.
Posted by: D75

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/08/06 02:15 AM

Thanks for info. I guess I kind of include coyotes as large canine, because they are becoming more prevalent. But I only said dog. Actually I am obviously not surprised. Truth tell, I made a cast of a couple prints in NJ that I was pretty certain were feline, though in this case I was expecting bobcat. The canine claws just often do not show up, but the pad patterns are distinctly different if you know what to look for. I did not at the time. Prints came up dog. They were in mud next to some pretty obvious turkey tracks and we had physically observed turkeys. Kind of exciting finding this kind of stuff though!
Posted by: fallenglass

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/08/06 02:01 PM

the article about mountain lions in the adirondacks was on ...

February 23, 2004, Monday
By LISA W. FODERARO (NYT); Metropolitan Desk
Late Edition - Final, Section B, Page 1, Column 2, 1652 words

... I don't have 'times select', so i can't post a link to the whole article ... but here's a preview:

Stalking the Elusive Wild Cougar ... if There Is One Left to Stalk

Officially, the eastern cougar has not prowled the great piney woods of the Adirondacks for more than a hundred years. Though still listed as a federally endangered species, it is, in the minds of state environmental officials, a phantom -- extinct, kaput. Trouble is, people keep seeing them. And...

if you do have 'times select', it might be an interesting read.
Posted by: nerdom

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/08/06 02:22 PM

The general giveaway that distinguishes cat tracks from canine tracks is the presence of claws - cats have retractable claws, so don't leave claw prints.
Posted by: talus

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/08/06 03:05 PM

that's why i took the photos no claws. i think John thomphson saw something on one toe that looked like a claw mark but it was part of the trail being groomed
Posted by: D75

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/08/06 03:52 PM

Google cougar tracks. Lots of hits. Not just this one.
Posted by: Spiderman

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/09/06 12:56 AM

I know this is the cat sighting post . But In Kerhonkson on 44/55 and just off of on two occasions I saw coyote. Quite large 60+ pounds.
Posted by: acdnyc

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/09/06 04:46 PM

I was down in WV climbing at Seneca and came across an article about a Mt. Lion study. There has not been a confirmed Mt. Lion sighting west of the Mississippi or north of Florida for a hundred years. A possible sighting was listed but they thought it was a male that had been released. If they are back then a study and signs should be posted. Mt. Lions do kill humans and the numbers of attacks are rising.
A friend saw one in Washington State and he was shocked at how big it was. He was alone with his dog. That was the last time he hiked alone in cat country.
Anywho, if they are back, look over your shoulder because they tend to go after your neck from behind.
Posted by: Timbo

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/09/06 05:18 PM

Quote:

There has not been a confirmed Mt. Lion sighting west of the Mississippi or north of Florida for a hundred years.




Uh, that's pretty much the entire continental US, with the exception of the southern tips of the Gulf Coast states.

Did you mean EAST of the Mississippi AND north of Florida ?

TS
Posted by: pitfall

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/09/06 05:30 PM

Quote:

I know this is the cat sighting post . But In Kerhonkson on 44/55 and just off of on two occasions I saw coyote. Quite large 60+ pounds.


Quite large? That's f'ing HUGE for a coyote.
Posted by: alicex4

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/09/06 05:35 PM

What about the big cat that was lurking in Delaware?

From Eastern Cougar net:

DELAWARE COUGAR CONFIRMATIONS

Exclusive to ECN, 11/26/02

The Delaware Division of Fish & Wildlife believes that there are currently at least two, and possibly more, free-roaming cougars in the State. The DNREC has confirmed the presence of cougars in the state over a period of several years. Officials are convinced that these animals are of captive origin. Sighting reports and confirmations of their presence have generally come from New Castle and Kent Counties. Evidence includes home video footage, pictures, tracks, scat and sightings by DNREC staff & law enforcement personnel. The pictures and videos are definitive. There is also evidence that the cats are regularly feeding on white-tailed deer and Canada geese. No reliable evidence exists of cougars taking domestic animals or threatening humans.

Credible cougar activity in the area started about eight years ago, when they were first reported near Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Within a few months, cougar reports began to occur in northern Delaware. A video of a cougar was taken in Arden about this time. The DNREC is certain that the video is authentic. In response, the New Castle County Police assigned one of their officers (Butch LeFebvre) to catch the cougar(s). He arranged with the Delaware S.P.C.A. and the New Bolton Veterinary Clinic of the University of Pennsylvania to be trained in the use of a tranquilizer gun. The plan was to sedate the animal and take it to the Wilmington Zoo until a permanent home could be found. Officer LeFebvre chased the cat for several months, and even brought in cougar hounds from Colorado. He claimed to have seen it on several occasions, but never came close to catching it.

There has been a consistent stream of credible reports from all three of the state's counties over the years. Members of the DNREC staff have reported seeing cougars over the years, but none recently. Park Rangers at White Clay Creek and Lum's Pond State Park have claimed to have seen cougars over the past decade, as has a naturalist with the Heritage Program at Woodland Beach. Two years ago, the DNREC received a video of a cougar in western Kent County, near the Sussex County line.

Captain Robert Hutchins of the Delaware DNREC summarized the evidence in the following email to ECN:

From: Hutchins Robert (DNREC)

Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 1:10 PM

To: Dowling, Mark (COMFIN, VFS)

Subject: RE: Cougar Project

Mark,

Here is a quick summary of confirmed cougar sightings in New Castle County, Delaware for the years:


Yr. 1999 ............12 Yr. 2000...........13

Yr. 2001.............20 Yr. 2002...........24

All of these confirmed cougar sightings have been investigated by a Fish & Wildlife Agent or Police Officer. I do not keep records of non-confirmed sightings. I can only give copies of the crime reports with cougar information to other police agencies for investigative purposes. Sorry, I forgot about the state law on dissemination of crime reports.

I have seen two separate video's of the cougar sightings that confirm that we have cougars in the area. We also have seen cougar tracks at sightings and cougar tracks at kills on deer and Canada Geese. The news media is keenly aware of the cougars and runs articles frequently.

There has not been a documented attack on livestock or humans in the state. We have photographs of hair, tracks and dead goats, sheep and a calf that were killed by dogs. Attempts to trap and hunt the animals have been unsuccessful. The Division believes there are 2 or 3 cougars in the state. They have been seen near schools, hospitals and shopping centers and have been photographed.

Cougars have been seen in all three counties of Delaware and nearby in Pennsylvania. There have been private citizens who have had cougars in their possession, it is possible that this is the source of cougars in our state. Cougar sightings can generate a lot of concern and apprehension from the public if information is not given to the news media by law enforcement in an attempt to educate the public in cougar safety.

Sincerely,

Cpt. Robert Hutchins
Posted by: acdnyc

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/09/06 05:37 PM

yeah, i did mean east. Sorry bout that I've been up since 1230am because I had to be at work at 2am.
Posted by: talus

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/09/06 06:34 PM

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ws/nwrc/is/living/cougar.pdf

pg 2 drawing of print, looks exactly like the paw print i took. also read somewhere there have been 47 sightings of cougars in NY state 2 in NJ
Posted by: Smike

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/09/06 07:13 PM

Sure wish we could see the pics you took......[large hint]
Posted by: ScottR

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/09/06 07:27 PM

There have been multiple sightings and a body (hit by a freight train) in Southern Illinois. It is only a matter of time before they make it here, if they have not already. Besides we could use a little help with the white tail infestation.
Posted by: GeeVee

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/09/06 08:16 PM

Quite large? That's f'ing HUGE for a coyote.

Don't know what thing's been eating but every resource I just looked at said typically around 30lbs for a male, around 25lbs for a female.
Posted by: GeeVee

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/09/06 08:19 PM

Besides we could use a little help with the white tail infestation.

Might also help with the overcrowding at the Gunks that some folks are always complaining about. I hear that gym climbing newbies are one of the catamount's favorite foods!
Posted by: MurphysLaw

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/09/06 08:22 PM

What GeeVee said. They don't get that big. Ever.

We had an actual, for-real, no kidding, Coyote in our front yard a coupla years ago.

Got to within like 15 feet of it (in the car, we were coming home from someplace) when it bolted.

It was a small and scrawny thing, like a small-to-medium sized, but very malnourished, dog.

Saw it once or twice more at later dates, from inside the house, I think we may have a few pics of it someplace....
Light brown and white fur, very large ears, at first I almost thought it was some sorta large wild cat, but nope, it was a coyote.
Posted by: talus

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/09/06 08:26 PM

coyotes are no big deal see em and hear em all the time.

smike, d75 like i said to you i'll send you the photos like i did to other gunk .comers just pm your email. i tried to post the photos but were to large and don't have time to resize. maybe someone who has the pics can
Posted by: d-elvis

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/09/06 08:44 PM

Quote:

I fought a puma once...but that is a thread drift from the skills thread




After thinking about it, I think it was a Wolverine... and it wasn't actually me, it was my cousins. Yes, like fifty of 'em. They kept trying to attack my cousins! What the heck would you do in a situation like that
Posted by: crackers

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/09/06 11:21 PM

I sent the pictures to a friend of mine who tracks wild cats in mongolia.

His response:

"definitely looks like a cat track. You can make out the 3 pointed pad
on the large rear pad, canids only have two points. Probably a cougar."

directory with the pictures
Posted by: Terrie

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/10/06 03:53 AM

Didn't the preserve people want to get very detailed info from you as to where you sighted the print? I would think so, unless the expert who reviewd it was utterly sure it wasn't a cat..... I'd think they'd want to see for themselves, if possible, if there was even the smallest possibility. Although I suppose they might not want to have too much publicity. Front page news, mom and pop load up the kids to go on a photo safari sort of publicity......
Posted by: maimed

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/10/06 04:42 AM

Au Contraire Terrie-
As my brother-in-law from VT (where catamount sightings have been frequent, if unsubstantiated for more than ten years) pointed out:
As soon as there is a threatened/endangered species confirmed to be present, the authorities would need to assign resources to managing, tracking, habitat studies etc. Much more conservative policy for them is to remain "unconvinced" at least on the record.
& BTW, I just read The Beast in the Garden: A Modern Parable of Man and Nature, which I recommend highly. It's about lions returning to the hills around Boulder CO and even downtown on occasion.

-Matt
Posted by: D75

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/10/06 11:48 AM

Those three pictures are canine. (IMO)



Note the front part of the large pad, then look at this.


The geometry of the toe pads also matches canine.

What is missing from the photo is any measure of scale. Next time, put something of a determinate size next to the track, watch, carabiner, or what have you. You can then use that later to establish the track size.

That way it will be easier to decide whether this was an ankle biter or a wolfhound.

Edited by request - (Cropped image is now on gunks.com)
Posted by: Mim

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/10/06 08:42 PM

*Drift thread alert*

I was once climbing with my honey and dog at an (undisclosed) cliff. We brought the dog on a ledge so he would not wander around, gave him water, had shade, he could have a nice view of us climbing if he wanted.

We went climbing. Shortly thereafter, a hiker walked by at the top of the cliff and doggy started growling, as he could not be seen, we figured it was fine.

A month later I get this email. "Have you and your honey been climbing at (undisclosed) cliff about a month ago?"
- yes
"Have you heard a mountain lion growling?"
Posted by: Bolt_Skytop

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/10/06 09:00 PM

I agree coyotes are no big deal. We have a bunch of them on the school property here and besides sometimes leaving pieces of deer around they don't bother anybody. There are also a bunch that live at vassar farms. I can here them howling sometimes, it so cool.
Posted by: talus

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/10/06 09:18 PM

lol d75 is wrong, ask Tom Brown he'll tell you what print this is from meow meow.

Posted by: andy

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/10/06 09:50 PM

Ok first off, in response to the wolf-like creature being spotted: It is a coyote; speaking with naturalists from the Preserve confirm that these wolf-like coyotes are larger, with white or gray fur. They are technically a mixture of red wolf from Canada and eastern coyote. They have become more prevalent in the region. Normal Eastern Coyote are smaller and more malnourished looking, as described on someone's back porch. So perhaps we can call them Wolfyotes.

In response to Talus' posts: First, you claim as though you "felt I was being stalked". Think about it: If an animal was stalking you, its tracks would be behind you, not in front of you waiting to be found. So stop with the paranoia and appeal to people's emotions. Oh and thanks for the warning: "be careful in the woods!" Thanks, but as a rational, sane individual I already am, there are plenty of other dangers besides Mtn. lions to be aware of: Bears, snakes, rockfall, hypothermia, lightning, killer bees, etc.

And I am suprised at the notion or feel that this is the first mtn. lion tracks in the area. Mtn. lions have been sighted many times over the years, and have had their tracks ID'd. And these tracks look nothing like the pictures.

Those of you with any science background should be familiar with the principle of Occam's Razor: the simplest explanation is the best. In this case, the simplest explanation for tracks that don't look like cougar is that they aren't cougar.

This principle applies to many naturalists and mammologists feelings towards regional mtn. lions. The majority agree that they are out there, but that their numbers (when compared to other species) are simply too small to be reproducing on any large scale, yet. The accepted theory is that people have gotten them as pets(don't believe me? I have several in my garage) and when they grew too big they drove them out into the wild and let them go. Many people living in NYC can confirm other crazy pets as well. In any case, DNA evidence would likely wrap things up.

So don't believe the hype. The Preserve knows about lions, as does the DEC. But because they exist don't think that every large print is a cougar's. Let's see some real mtn. lion tracks, and we can discuss this further.
Posted by: GOclimb

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/10/06 11:31 PM

Here's what google has to say:




GO
Posted by: onionman

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/12/06 01:00 AM

The website:

http://www.bear-tracker.com/caninevsfeline.html

which I've attempted to link here:
Canine VS Feline Tracks

has an excellent description of how to distinguish cat and dog tracks. Since I have no experience whatsoever in tracking, my opinion doesn't count for much, but it looks like a canine track to me. The distinguishing features are:

1. The inner toes are much farther forward than the outer.
2. The heel pad looks very triangular.
3. The track is longer than it is wide.

Looks like the front left paw of a "big" dog to me. I can't determine the "big" from the picture, that's just based on the description that was given.
Posted by: Leemouse2

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/12/06 03:05 PM

I live just north of New Paltz in Rosendale, back up onto preserve land, and have a quite a large pack of coyotes that den nearby. We hear them far more often than we see them, but we do spot them occasionally as well. One is black, and about the size of a German shepard. Another we have seen is more grayish and wolf-like in coloring. They are not small like the western coyotes (eastern coyotes are between 30 and 50 pounds) plus I suspect they are not "pure" coyotes but are coy dogs (coyotes that have interbred with domestic dogs). The black one in particular is HUGE. I was actually walking with my two dogs in the woods one time, they run all over the place, and I looked up at the top of a cliff and saw a black dog face peering down at me. From that distance I mistook him for my black dog, who is about 75 pounds. So I called him, the face disappeared, and at the same time Mugsy, who it turns out was right behind me, pokes me with his snout. Spooooky.

When I lived out in the Catskills (Boiceville) we'd hear bobcat occasionally. Very scary and unmistakeable (once you know what it is). Could easily believe there are mountain lion out there too.
Posted by: chip

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/13/06 01:48 AM

I have accumulated a fair bit of personal experience with cougar, of all places, here in Delaware. We have had a mountain lion around for about ten years, that roams up and down seasonally. This past fall, hiking at night in the local state park, one of my dogs freaked a bit and I found the beast eyeing me from under a bush about 30 feet away. At first I didn't see him even with my Soliris on full power until he blinked and the shape became obvious. I've come across very fresh prints a number of times and even a couple cached killed deer over the years, later coming back and finding evidence that it was probably watching me the whole time. This was the first I had sited it in at least 8 years. I'm convinced this one wants nothing to do with potential human interactions. On the other hand, there may come a time when it is injured or sick enough to attack a stinky polypro wearing runner like myself, especially as my running speed drops.
The DEC will deny, but have been releasing individual couger. I know this and it has been confirmed by a friend. They wish to avoid public outcry, at least until the cats are firmly established again.
I have seen Linx in the Catskills during winter (very loud screaming outside my tent due to camping right under a den) and the tracks are nearly as large and similar to a cougar, perhaps another possibility as to what you saw.
Posted by: chip

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/13/06 02:08 AM

Sorry, I missed some of this thread and didn't realize there was positive ID.
Butch LeFevre and I were very friendly during the time he was tracking this cat. He had on at least 20 occaisions found that the cat had evaded him seeing it, even with night goggles, when he had passed within 50 feet.
I agree that a big cat scream is something you won't forget. I've seen very large coyotes in the Catskills, compared to those I've seen out west. They looked real well fed for wild animals.
Posted by: Mark Heyman

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/13/06 02:33 AM

Talus's posted track look just like my dogs, not like the coyte tracks posted here.

Last summer there was a roaming black bear down here in SJ. I later heard that they had been realeased here a few years ago, though whatever agency did it will not acknowlege it.
Posted by: talus

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/13/06 02:11 PM

in response to andy. naturalist big whoop. paranoia has nothing to do with it dude, check yourself for paranoia with your fear of snakes, tigers, getting the sniffles, and have pebbles fall of the cliff. i'm 34 now and been hunting since i was 12 and all the times i've been in the woods alone i was never scared and that includes being right next to bears. this has been the only time i was ever scared. and a cat will come out from any direction not directly behind sorry cats think differently from the creepy guy in the woods.

Posted by: Spiderman

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/15/06 10:27 PM

The two I saw where light gray/ gray in color with big bushy tails ( not a small Wile E. Coyote variety ) It is the norm that they will avoid humans caution should still be taken with children, they can be more aggressive in a pack. When they are accustoming to human sent this will decrease their fear of humans. In the Gunks and surrounding area human sent is prevalent. As said before by several people they are no big deal, although we should be aware of this; just as a pack of feral dogs can be dangerous so can a pack of coyotes under the right circumstances.

Big cats are another thing they will drag off pets some big dogs, and small children.



OK So I made this last sentence up, from urban /rural legend, but it sounds good.

All in all the wilder the better!!
Posted by: crackers

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/15/06 10:36 PM

Look at cougarinfo.com for information on attacks. They're serious beasties...
Posted by: irisharehere

Re: by yourself be careful - 03/15/06 11:15 PM

I'm still offering up my wife's ankle-biter as bait! What could resist 20lbs of fresh, well-fed Lhasa Apso?
Posted by: talus

Re: by yourself be careful - 06/16/06 05:27 PM

mountain lions in NJ

vernon nj to new paltz 61 miles. mtn lions can travel up to 35 miles in 1 day

meow
Posted by: phlan

Re: by yourself be careful - 07/05/06 07:05 PM

Q: is there a difference between bobcat and mountain lion screams?

the house is right on the Wallkill up here in shawangunk and have heard some ungodly noises at night in the woods right near the house as have people renting the house from me as well. this has not really happened recently but several times over the years. after talking to a lot of people I figured it was bobcat but now I'm not so sure...

one of the guys at work who hunts actually played me a tape recording of supposedly bobcat it matched up pretty well. glad I now have a shotgun for a wee bit of protection... just grab it and shoot self in foot and that will distract me from any damn noise LOL
Posted by: chip

Re: by yourself be careful - 07/05/06 07:39 PM

I've had up close and personal encounters with bobcat, lynx and cougar, but never heard the cougar scream up close. The former two will certainly wake you with a start and "ungodly" is about the best descriptor I can think of. There are healthy populations of lynx higher up in the catskills but probably not near you unless they are hurt/sick or otherwise impaired. My money would be on bobcat, which are very unlikely to bother you.
Posted by: Smike

Re: by yourself be careful - 08/28/06 12:07 AM

Article with Chris Spatz and Mt. Lion.

http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060827/NEWS/608270349/-1/NEWS
Posted by: talus

Re: by yourself be careful - 04/08/08 12:47 PM

these photos were photographed at the NY/PA boarder



Posted by: Architect

Re: by yourself be careful - 04/08/08 12:51 PM

Wow, That is why I like Cats over dogs. "come here fifi, say hi to the kitty cat".

Beautiful animal.
Posted by: chip

Re: by yourself be careful - 04/08/08 02:34 PM

Proud pics. I am thinkin' there is a potential problem with a cat that will come right up on your porch. They are usually much more reclusive. It looks fine, but I wonder.
DEC has released some and a few have been released by private owners, usually illegal owners. DEC will claim no knowledge if asked but did admit when a friend threatened to shoot it while he had them on the phone. I have thought the gunks would be fine terrain for one or two. Nice kitty.
Posted by: RangerRob

Re: by yourself be careful - 04/08/08 03:21 PM

I've seen a giraffe in the Savanahs of stewart State Forest in Orange County. I know the DEC wants to deny it, but they're out there. I've also heard about the state participating in clandestined Platypus stockings in the swampy areas in and around the Hudson Valley. I also hear that the misty hills of northwest Dutchess County are great habitat for Silverback Gorillas and some have been sighted. Strangely enough, scientists now say there is enough Japanese Knotweed growing on and around the Shawangunk Ridge to support a breeding population of Red Pandas. If that doesn't surprise you, I have personally seen vernicous Knids prowling the waters of Split Rock on humid August evenings. Conspiracy my ass!! They all exist....I saw it I swear. It was 600 pounds if it was a pound I tell ya! I saw it lying dead on the side of the road, and I've been looking for evidence of these things for years. But, I was late for work and couldn't stop which is why I didn't take a picture....I saw it on the grassy knoll...what about building 7?? I think...building 7 was the secret government breeding lab for all of these secretly introduced species, and the damned liberal media got wind of it, so they had to blow the whole operation.

RR
Posted by: talus

Re: by yourself be careful - 04/08/08 04:09 PM

 Originally Posted By: RangerRob
I've seen a giraffe in the Savanahs of stewart State Forest in Orange County. I know the DEC wants to deny it, but they're out there. I've also heard about the state participating in clandestined Platypus stockings in the swampy areas in and around the Hudson Valley. I also hear that the misty hills of northwest Dutchess County are great habitat for Silverback Gorillas and some have been sighted. Strangely enough, scientists now say there is enough Japanese Knotweed growing on and around the Shawangunk Ridge to support a breeding population of Red Pandas. If that doesn't surprise you, I have personally seen vernicous Knids prowling the waters of Split Rock on humid August evenings. Conspiracy my ass!! They all exist....I saw it I swear. It was 600 pounds if it was a pound I tell ya! I saw it lying dead on the side of the road, and I've been looking for evidence of these things for years. But, I was late for work and couldn't stop which is why I didn't take a picture....I saw it on the grassy knoll...what about building 7?? I think...building 7 was the secret government breeding lab for all of these secretly introduced species, and the damned liberal media got wind of it, so they had to blow the whole operation.

RR



this is what happens when you huff gas
Posted by: Smike

Re: by yourself be careful - 04/08/08 04:19 PM

 Originally Posted By: talus
this is what happens when you huff gas


Talus, you might consider laying off the gas yourself...

http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/patiomountainlion.asp

I give that troll about 2 (outta 10)

Posted by: empicard

Re: by yourself be careful - 04/08/08 04:21 PM

nice work smikey!
Posted by: talus

Re: by yourself be careful - 04/08/08 04:45 PM

smikie sorry dude but a mtn lion will likly be found in our parts of the woods compared to a giraffe. but what would you know

tell them here where it was reported to be from NY/PA boarder

http://www.telemarktalk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=45026&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0


anyway good job on snopes
Posted by: quanto_the_mad

Re: by yourself be careful - 04/08/08 05:24 PM

Giraffes? There aren't any giraffes in orange county, we hunted them to extinction back in the 80's.
Posted by: Smike

Re: by yourself be careful - 04/08/08 05:34 PM

 Originally Posted By: talus
but what would you know


HummÂ…. well my spelling sucks for sure by my reading comprehension was adequate enough to know who wrote what about giraffes running around on the ridge. \:\/
Posted by: chip

Re: by yourself be careful - 04/08/08 07:29 PM

Talus hooked me. I am especially sensitive to these guys from my own encounters with one and one of my best friends who had one in the southern dacks in his scope one evening and was eventually told by DEC it was theirs in order to keep him from firing. He is not a liar, nor am I, but we do enjoy the occaisional prank.
Posted by: RAF

Re: by yourself be careful - 04/08/08 08:12 PM

This rare, spotted feline specimen was recently sighted in Peapack, NJ, undoubtedly attracted to the area by the many deer munching the ornamental shrubbery surrounding the local McMansions. Wildlife photography can be extremely dangerous, so be careful out there!
Posted by: talus

Re: by yourself be careful - 04/08/08 08:17 PM

wow albino tigers are rare for NJ good capture on that one
Posted by: Smike

Re: by yourself be careful - 04/08/08 08:35 PM

Bob... dare I ask where you found a PINK fluffy velvet duvet cover?
Posted by: strat

Re: by yourself be careful - 04/08/08 08:44 PM

Mike, May I ask how you learned what a duvet cover is? (what is it?)
Posted by: Smike

Re: by yourself be careful - 04/08/08 08:47 PM

 Originally Posted By: strat
Mike, May I ask how you learned what a duvet cover is? (what is it?)


Easy, live with a women long enough, and you will know these things.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: by yourself be careful - 04/09/08 12:51 AM

Don't anyone tell Ragin' Rob, but last week my kids spotted one of those Chinese Frankenfish ahoppin' outta Lake Minnehaha. After a moment of amazement at his gyrations of locomotion the kids decide he is lost and should be helped back to his point of origin. It was at this time he became a Chinese flying fish.
Much to their chagrin he reappeared not 2 minutes later,flophopping away. He was then rerenamed the Chinese Slow Return Boomerang fish.
He was left to find his own way.
Posted by: oenophore

Re: by yourself be careful - 04/09/08 10:21 AM

Now here's a nice myth: Lake Minnewaska Minnie, a small plesiosaur that defied extinction. That's why you just about never see fish there.
Posted by: strat

Re: by yourself be careful - 04/09/08 12:04 PM

 Originally Posted By: Smike
 Originally Posted By: strat
Mike, May I ask how you learned what a duvet cover is? (what is it?)


Easy, live with a women long enough, and you will know these things.


Must only apply in New Hope. My father certainly never knew what a duvet cover was!
Posted by: RAF

Re: by yourself be careful - 04/09/08 12:48 PM

<<Bob... dare I ask where you found a PINK fluffy velvet duvet cover?>>

Duvet cover? It's a blanket, I got it at Linens & Things, and it's on the bed in the room where my daughters stay when they visit. The room also has flower-print curtains, although I had to veto the girls' first choice as too obtrusively flowery.

Lemme tell ya, it was extremely difficult to get such a bloodthirsty beast to pose for pictures, plus the hundred pounds of steak tartare was very expensive. But I suppose it was worth it, since National Geographic and Scientific American are interested in the pictures and having me write an article.
Posted by: crackers

Re: by yourself be careful - 06/12/11 06:35 AM

Okay, now that an extinct animal has been killed in connecticut, does anybody feel like revisiting their perspectives?

wink
Posted by: chip

Re: by yourself be careful - 06/12/11 04:28 PM

Word!
Posted by: Coppertone

Re: by yourself be careful - 06/14/11 09:26 PM

Have no fear the mountain lion is unmasked.

http://www.greenwichmountainlion.com/