is a day pass needed for lost city?

Posted by: alan

is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/16/10 05:58 PM

what near by areas are free. thanx
Posted by: Rickster

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/16/10 06:03 PM

Nothing south of the Adirondacks as far as rock climbing goes. Any legal climbing in the Gunks is administered ($$$) by either the Mohonk Preserve or PIPC. RC
Posted by: Julie

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/16/10 06:20 PM

To be specific - you park for Lost City at the Split Rock lot, which is most often manned by a MP attendant to check for a day pass.
Posted by: mrhutt

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/16/10 06:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Julie
To be specific - you park for Lost City at the Split Rock lot, which is most often manned by a MP attendant to check for a day pass.


To be really specific - the "Split Rock lot" is called the Coxing Trailhead lot on any Preserve map or publication.
Posted by: MarcC

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/16/10 06:35 PM

Originally Posted By: mrhutt
Originally Posted By: Julie
To be specific - you park for Lost City at the Split Rock lot, which is most often manned by a MP attendant to check for a day pass.


To be really specific - the "Split Rock lot" is called the Coxing Trailhead lot on any Preserve map or publication.

And to be really really specific, even if you didn't park there and you managed to avoid the MP attendant, Lost City is on Preserve land and thus requires paying the land use fee.
Posted by: Kent

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/16/10 06:50 PM

Alan, you also may want to consider that two of the above posters, in previous remarks, have indicated that if you don't agree with the landowner, then you are justified in ignoring whatever rules the landowner sets regarding their property.

So really, according to those previous remarks, if you don't want to, and you can get away with it, there is no need to pay the day pass fee.

cool
Posted by: RangerRob

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/16/10 07:02 PM

Yes you need to pay a dee fee to go to Lost City, but why would want to climb there? It's a dirty, loose, undocumented choss heap populated by locals who scheme to keep visitors away from it. besides, there's nothing easy to climb there anyway. It's all hard and unportected.
Posted by: Julie

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/16/10 07:10 PM

Oh, but wouldn't it be nice to be able to find out just a bit of info about climbs at Lost City without having to beg, plead or borrow from lunatic landowners and their naysaying neighbors, whose motives most conclude are suspect?

Edit: forgot the mandatory emoticon ....
whistle
Posted by: Kent

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/16/10 07:14 PM

Julie said:
Quote:
Oh, but wouldn't it be nice to be able to find out just a bit of info about climbs at Lost City without having to beg, plead or borrow from lunatic landowners and their naysaying neighbors, whose motives most conclude are suspect?

Sounds like Julie is saying the Mohonk Preserve is a lunatic landowner whose motives are suspect. Such heresy.
Posted by: quanto_the_mad

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/16/10 08:08 PM

Originally Posted By: Julie
Oh, but wouldn't it be nice to be able to find out just a bit of info about climbs at Lost City without having to beg, plead or borrow from lunatic landowners and their naysaying neighbors, whose motives most conclude are suspect?


You mean aside from walking up there and actually looking at the rock.
Posted by: quanto_the_mad

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/16/10 08:37 PM

Originally Posted By: Rickster
Nothing south of the Adirondacks as far as rock climbing goes. Any legal climbing in the Gunks is administered ($$$) by either the Mohonk Preserve or PIPC. RC


If I'm not mistaken, Witch's Hole is State Forest. But it's way out there, undocumented, and far from rescue. I've been planning on taking a hike up there, but haven't been yet.

And some land south of 52 which is also State Forest which someone mentioned had some bouldering (but I haven't found it yet).
Posted by: Rickster

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/16/10 09:31 PM

Originally Posted By: quanto_the_mad


If I'm not mistaken, Witch's Hole is State Forest. But it's way out there, undocumented, and far from rescue. I've been planning on taking a hike up there, but haven't been yet.

And some land south of 52 which is also State Forest which someone mentioned had some bouldering (but I haven't found it yet).


Sure, but would you send an infrequent visitor out to these areas? Areas that even most locals don't know about?
RC
Posted by: Advocacy group

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/17/10 12:56 AM

Originally Posted By: Julie
To be specific - you park for Lost City at the Split Rock lot, which is most often manned by a MP attendant to check for a day pass.


Isn't this rich, someone told Julie where to park for lost city, how about getting her the rest of the way there?
Posted by: RangerRob

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/17/10 03:50 AM

Great..are we going to let the secret out that High E is completely overrated too?

Just FYI Advoman...Lost City isn't exactly lost. It's location is mapped out in Gunks guidebooks.
Posted by: quanto_the_mad

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/17/10 03:52 PM

Originally Posted By: Rickster
Originally Posted By: quanto_the_mad


If I'm not mistaken, Witch's Hole is State Forest. But it's way out there, undocumented, and far from rescue. I've been planning on taking a hike up there, but haven't been yet.

And some land south of 52 which is also State Forest which someone mentioned had some bouldering (but I haven't found it yet).


Sure, but would you send an infrequent visitor out to these areas? Areas that even most locals don't know about?
RC


No, I wouldn't necessarily send anyone to Witche's Hole. Then again, I wouldn't send an infrequent visitor to Lost City either. But as the OP asks about LC, and free areas nearby, I think it's worth mentioning that there are free areas near the Gunks, certainly south of the Dacks.
Posted by: Mike Rawdon

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/18/10 10:42 PM

Originally Posted By: Advocacy group
Originally Posted By: Julie
To be specific - you park for Lost City at the Split Rock lot, which is most often manned by a MP attendant to check for a day pass.


Isn't this rich, someone told Julie where to park for lost city, how about getting her the rest of the way there?


Isn't it funny how Advocacy seems to be real familiar with the old Julie vs. Lost City issue? That thread died, what, a year before AG signed on to g.com.

C'mon Advocacy, time to peel away the veil and show your - undoubtedly familiar - face.
Posted by: climberism

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/19/10 02:43 AM

Originally Posted By: RangerRob
Yes you need to pay a dee fee to go to Lost City, but why would want to climb there? It's a dirty, loose, undocumented choss heap populated by locals who scheme to keep visitors away from it. besides, there's nothing easy to climb there anyway. It's all hard and unportected.


Got a chuckle out of this one. It really works against the locals trying to keep visitors out of there with all their whispers, and sour attitudes. The climbing isn't that great, and there is much better to be had in the area. Let the hard routes do their job, they on their own will keep people away...

If I remember correctly doesn't the sign near the bathroom at The Trapps say something along the lines of "suggested or optional donataion for day use?" I could be wrong but I believe it is along those words. I always wondered about that...
Posted by: quanto_the_mad

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/19/10 04:25 PM

Locals aren't trying to keep visitors out of LC. We are trying to keep it undocumented, as per the request of the Preserve.

What keeps most people away from LC is
1. said lack of documentation
2. the hike "up"
3. lack of parking
4. plenty of good climbing in documented areas

though in what specific order depends on who you ask.
Posted by: climberism

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/19/10 07:03 PM

Your right, it is shown on maps and locals aren't trying to keep people out of there. But any unfamiliar face or guiding up there doesn't get the best vibe from others... Either way I don't care to get into this discussion, its been had already. If the guy wants to climb at LC, then by all means. There is just better climbing, like you said "in documented areas" and that's just opinion for what its worth.

That being said, climbing looks good for the next few days and I'll be hanging from doubles, with a pbr in my hand!
Posted by: RangerRob

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/19/10 07:24 PM

PBR!!! Man I'm thristy all of a sudden
Posted by: Julie

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/19/10 08:12 PM

Y'know, I had some damn good Saranac Lake IPA the other day.
Posted by: climberism

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/19/10 08:15 PM

mmmm... IPA!
Posted by: Erik

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/20/10 12:56 AM

im drinkin a beer right now called "Tiny" Belgian imperial stout, 11.8 percent. Tasty.
Posted by: RangerRob

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/20/10 12:59 AM

Saranac Lake IPA, or Saranac IPA? Saranac is actually made in Utica, in the same brewery that makes Utica Club. I do like it however.
Posted by: Erik

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/20/10 01:00 AM

LC has some good climbing, "Golden Streaks" is a great line and a fun lead.
Posted by: Julie

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/20/10 01:05 AM

Saranac. We got a sampler 6, and I'm having the (plain) pale ale right now - not as good as the IPA.

I had a copper ale of theirs last winter that I'm still thinking about.
Posted by: RangerRob

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/20/10 01:08 AM

Have you led led Golden Streaks? Kinda runout, eh? For what it's worth, I've found a lot better climbing out there than Golden Streaks. I find 90% of the people who climb out there never venture beyond the Chasm or the little amphitheatre. I literally have never seen anyone climbing left of the amphitheatre..and boy oh boy is there a ton of great routes out there
Posted by: Erik

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/20/10 01:21 AM

it's only runout at the top, good horizontals after the roof until about 65 ft.
Posted by: Erik

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/20/10 01:30 AM

Stannard's roof is fun as well. LC is fun for a day trip every once in a while, but there are soooo many climbs with easier access that it's almost not worth the hike. Almost. smile
Posted by: RangerRob

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/20/10 01:51 AM

I disagree Erik. The approach to Lost City from the parking lot is faster than the hike from the West Trapps to madame G's. It just involves walking uphill in the woods for 10 minutes. The Gunks are an amazing place. Nowhere else in the world would a climber complain about a ten minute approach, except maybe Eldo.

RR
Posted by: AOR

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/20/10 01:58 AM

Originally Posted By: climberism
But any unfamiliar face or guiding up there doesn't get the best vibe from others...


In 30 years of climbing out there, I've never encountered anything like this. So, I'm not quite sure what you mean.
Posted by: Kent

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/20/10 02:06 AM


RR, ten minutes?? That's outrageous!!
Posted by: Erik

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/20/10 02:24 AM

true, true, but I can be at Infinite Space, Kansas City or Iron cross in less than 3 minutes. Plus, all of the approaches in the Trapps are more user friendly.
Posted by: MarcC

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/20/10 05:23 AM

Originally Posted By: Erik
true, true, but I can be at Infinite Space, Kansas City or Iron cross in less than 3 minutes. Plus, all of the approaches in the Trapps are more user friendly.

Only in the Gunks, with collectively the easiest approaches in the country, would someone complain about a 10 minute approach.
Posted by: rg@ofmc

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/20/10 05:39 AM

If you are not fond of climbing as a metaphor for urban overcrowding, you'll be eternally grateful for the huge number of climbers who think ten minutes is long and an hour is unthinkable.

The Needles in South Dakota compete with and in some cases beat the Gunks with routes just a few steps from the car.
Posted by: curt

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/20/10 06:04 AM

Originally Posted By: rg@ofmc

The Needles in South Dakota compete with and in some cases beat the Gunks with routes just a few steps from the car.


Excellent routes, too. Yet in spite of that...

Curt
Posted by: Erik

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/20/10 09:16 AM

Not complainin about the approach, just making a comparison. I have no problem taking the walk if I have to, to get to some good climbing. smile
Posted by: Coppertone

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/20/10 10:20 AM

I have to say that most potrero routes make the Gunks look like backpacking, which is fine as I enjoy backpacking
Posted by: schwortz

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/20/10 10:36 AM

and dont forget you can pretty much throw a baseball from the road to the base of el cap
Posted by: Julie

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/20/10 01:39 PM

I must throw like a girl, but I seem to remember at least a few minutes of talus up to the base of El Cap. Swan Slabs, on the other hand, or South Crack ... now that's bumper-belaying.

Then again, Braille Book has a pretty heinous approach yet seems to stack up with parties.
Posted by: quanto_the_mad

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/20/10 02:13 PM

What's the status on the land south of LC? The Parcel Viewer says it's NYS land, #08500100010090000000. SW of the Preserve, east of PIPC/Dickie Barre area. I always assumed that was PIPC land and never explored .

Posted by: RangerRob

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/20/10 03:07 PM

That's the Park Quanto. If you walk the High Peterskill's trail southwest you cross over onto Minnewaska after about 10 or 15 minutes
Posted by: alan

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/20/10 08:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Rickster
Nothing south of the Adirondacks as far as rock climbing goes. Any legal climbing in the Gunks is administered ($$$) by either the Mohonk Preserve or PIPC. RC

is outback slabs worth the hike out? I have never been
Posted by: tradjunkie

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/20/10 08:29 PM

You can reach the base of the Nose with no real talus.

Whitehorse Slab has, what, a minute, plus walking up the driveway, maybe 3 total? And Cathedral's not much more. Parts of Rumney are about the same, though steeper. CP Slab is a contender certainly vs the epic Poke-O approach of 10 minutes or more.

Compared with these, Lost City is almost as remote a wilderness destination as Ragged Mountain, in terms of approach time.
Posted by: Rickster

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/20/10 10:56 PM

I've ice climbed the Outback Slab but have not rock climbed there. Technically, you'd need a MP day or seasonal pass there as well. RC
Posted by: quanto_the_mad

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/21/10 03:21 PM

Originally Posted By: alan
Originally Posted By: Rickster
Nothing south of the Adirondacks as far as rock climbing goes. Any legal climbing in the Gunks is administered ($$$) by either the Mohonk Preserve or PIPC. RC

is outback slabs worth the hike out? I have never been


Do you like slabs? It's a nice change of pace, but not a lot to do there.

Maybe some ground-up routes, but it was wet the one time I headed down, and looked thin once you pulled up onto the slab.
Posted by: rg@ofmc

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/21/10 05:04 PM

Like others, I've only been on the OB Slab when it was ice-covered. Art Gran's original Gunks guide lists two rock routes (without grades).

Art's Route: Starts by going over an overhang from a block on a platform at the left.

Dave's Route: Face climbing a bit right of center.

Presumably, "Art" is Art Gran and "Dave" is Dave Craft.
Posted by: alan

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/23/10 11:26 PM

Originally Posted By: rg@ofmc
Like others, I've only been on the OB Slab when it was ice-covered. Art Gran's original Gunks guide lists two rock routes (without grades).

Art's Route: Starts by going over an overhang from a block on a platform at the left.

Dave's Route: Face climbing a bit right of center.

Presumably, "Art" is Art Gran and "Dave" is Dave Craft.


thanks guys
Posted by: quanto_the_mad

Re: is a day pass needed for lost city? - 08/24/10 12:01 AM

If you TR, there maybe several "routes". You set up an anchor up top, lower the climber down, and they climb back up. It's a pretty big slab so it's possible there are a lot to do. We did a few laps and then headed down to see what we could do ground-up.