Un-freed Aid Routes?

Posted by: paborden

Un-freed Aid Routes? - 09/11/03 11:45 PM

Just wondering...have either Poops or Spinal Traction (I think both go at 5.6 A3 or so) ever been freed? The William's Select book doesn't state so if that's the case. Have there been any attempts at these lines?

It's not like I'm about to go jump on these anytime soon, just curious really.
Posted by: TARGHEE

Re: Un-freed Aid Routes? - 09/14/03 02:59 PM

See Swain's guide for info on free attempts on Poops
Posted by: MarcC

Re: Un-freed Aid Routes? - 09/14/03 04:14 PM

If you want to get really picky about things, technically some of the free versions of aid routes follow a variation and not the original aid line. Twilight Zone and Open Cockpit are two that come to mind.
Posted by: crackers

Re: Un-freed Aid Routes or Free variations... - 09/15/03 07:53 AM

plus erect direction...
Posted by: Eddie

ST - 09/15/03 11:32 AM

spinal traction goes more like 5.4 c1+ (maybe c2- if you need to stroke you ego. it is fairly simple....provided you are confortable hanging from a roof!)
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: ST - 09/16/03 12:47 AM

eddie.... you've spent too much time in Yosemite if you think Spinal Traction is C1+ remember the first time you did it?
Posted by: Eddie

Re: ST - 09/16/03 01:06 AM

yeah i remember it well. climbed up through the runoff went out, pulled some gear, took a "bottom drops out" fall andf went home.
came back again,climbed up, swore, bitch, cried, bitched and swore myself over the lip, and off!
alll and all it was difficult work, but no harder than C1+.....okay, for you. C2-
eddie
Posted by: tico

Re: ST - 09/16/03 05:16 PM

Quote:

yeah i remember it well. climbed up through the runoff went out, pulled some gear, took a "bottom drops out" fall andf went home.
came back again,climbed up, swore, bitch, cried, bitched and swore myself over the lip, and off!
alll and all it was difficult work, but no harder than C1+.....okay, for you. C2-
eddie




Sadly enough, I'll agree with Eddie. If you're okay aiding sandstone, you'll be okay on the sugary rotten junk rock on SP. But since you're not going to get hurt, it's C2 at the most.

Remember, if you fall on A3, you're going to the hospital. Fall on A4, going to the morgue. There's no such thing as A5.
Posted by: empicard

Re: ST - 09/16/03 05:30 PM

Quote:

There's no such thing as A5



yes there is. A5 gear.
I thought according to Freedom of the Hills A5 meant a sh!tty belay, and if you go, youre both going for a ride?
Posted by: MarcC

Re: ST - 09/16/03 05:59 PM

Quote:

I thought according to Freedom of the Hills A5 meant a sh!tty belay, and if you go, youre both going for a ride?



That's the theoretical grade of A6. Here's how "Bigwall" John Middendorf describes aid ratings:
[From: http://www.bigwalls.net/climb/Ratings.html ]
Ratings
A0: Also known as "french-free", using gear to make progress, but generally no aiders required. Examples: Half Dome regular route, sections of the Nose route on El Cap, the first two pitches of the West Face (either a quick 5.10, A0 with three points of aid, or tricky 5.11 c).

A1: Easy aid: placements straightforward and solid. No risk of any piece pulling out. Aiders generally required. Fast and simple for C1, the hammerless corresponding grade, but not necessarily fast and simple for nailing pitches. Examples: (clean) the non-5.12 version of the Salathe headwall, Prodigal Son on Angel's Landing and Touchstone Wall in Zion.

A2: Moderate aid: placements generally solid but possible awkward and strenuous to place. Maybe a tenuous placement or two above good pro with no fall-danger. Examples: the Right side of El Cap Tower (nailing), Moonlight Buttress and Space Shot in Zion (clean).

A2+: Like A2, but possibly several tenuous placements above good pro. 20 to 30 foot fall potential but with little danger of hitting anything. Route finding abilities may be required. Examples: the new wave grades of Mescalito and the Shield on El Cap, the Kor route on the Titan in the Fisher Towers area.

A3: Hard aid: testing methods required. Involves many tenuous placements in a row. Generally solid placements (which could hold a fall) found within a pitch. Long fall potential up to 50 feet (6-8 placements ripping), but generally safe from serious danger. Usually several hours required to complete a pitch, due to complexity of placements. Examples: The Pacific Ocean Wall lower crux pitches (30 feet between original bolts on manky fixed copperheads), Standing Rock in the desert (the crux being a traverse on the first pitch with very marginal gear with 30 foot swing potential into a corner).

A3+:Like A3, but with dangerous fall potential. Tenuous placements (like a marginal tied-off pin or a hook an a fractured edge) after long stretches of body-weight pieces (here body-weight placements are considered for all practical purposes any piece of gear not solid enough to hold a fall). Potential to get hurt if good judgement is not exercised. Time required generally exceeds 3 hours for experienced aid climbers. Example: Pitch 3 of "Days of No Future" on Angel's Landing in Zion, the crux being 50 feet of birdbeaks and tied-off blades in soft sandstone followed by a blind, marginal Friend placement in loose rock which was hard to test properly, all this above a ledge.

A4: Serious aid: lots of danger. 60 to 100 foot fall potentials common, with uncertain landings far below. Examples: pitches on the Kaliyuga on Half Dome and the Radiator on Abraham in Zion.

A4+: More serious than A4. these leads generally take many hours to complete and require the climber to endure long periods of uncertainty and fear, often requiring a ballet-like efficiency of movement in order not to upset the tenuous integrity of marginal placements. Examples: the "Welcome to Wyoming" pitch (formerly the"Psycho Killer" pitch) on the Wyoming Sheep Ranch on El Cap, requiring 50 feet of climbing through a loose, broken, and rotten Diorite roof with very marginal, scary placements like stoppers wedged in between two loose, shifting, rope-slicing slivers of rock, all this over a big jagged loose ledge which would surely break and maim bones. The pitch is then followed by 100 feet of hooking interspersed with a few rivets to the belay.

A5: Extreme aid. Nothing really trustworthy of catching a fall for the entire pitch. Rating should be reserved only for pitches with no bolts or rivets (holes) for the entire pitch. Examples: pitches on the Jolly Roger and the Wyoming Sheep Ranch on El Cap, Jim Beyer routes in Arches National Park and the Fisher Towers.

A6: (Theoretical grade) A5 climbing with marginal belays which will not hold a fall.
Posted by: pedestrian

Re: ST - 09/16/03 06:02 PM

That's true, but they also stated that A5 was a "theoretical" grade, equivalent to A4 but with a belay that won't hold. Theoretical means that it isn't used in practice because typically people will bolt the belays.

I've heard stories of people taking 300-footers on continuously overhanging pitches in the valley and living to tell the tale...
Posted by: MarcC

Re: ST - 09/16/03 06:12 PM

Quote:

That's true, but they also stated that A5 was a "theoretical" grade, equivalent to A4 but with a belay that won't hold.



Wouldn't be the first time that Freedom of the Hills was a bit behind the curve!

At one point in history, the aid rating was based solely on the length of the potential fall, with little or no consideration of the landing zone.
Posted by: Dizzy

Un-freed Aid Routes? - 09/16/03 06:49 PM

Isn't the title redundant?

Now going,
Dizz
Posted by: pedestrian

Re: ST - 09/16/03 07:57 PM

Quote:

Wouldn't be the first time that Freedom of the Hills was a bit behind the curve!




My bad... they actually listed A6 as the theoretical grade.
Posted by: RangerRob

Re: ST - 09/22/03 02:29 PM

I've done SP twice, both times without the crux hook placement, and found it to be C2. It is most definitely not A3. You are never more than one piece away from a bomber placement. There's a line left of Kansas City that crosses Outer Space Direct on small seams and right facing corners. That felt harder as there were multiple tenuous small wires in a row above an ankle breaking ledge, followed by two consecutive hook moves. That felt C2+ to me.

RangerRob
Bushwhacker